What's happening you guys !!

[Pratters]

Would you consider burning the bails, or veil or whatever ir might have been, for the Ashes, also immature? It was an expression of disappointment at the team's performances. Peaceful processes of burning effigees or painting donkeys are also essentially expressions.

The picture Manan shows btw is not fans per say. The man has a bandana of sorts of some political group and so it must have been a part of a political expression. Given the money and public following cricket has in India, it is a given that corridors of power try to gain maximum mileage out of it. Again, India is a democracy, and if people express, I don't have a problem with it (as long as it does not do some thing like block roads or cause some other problem/inconvenience).

 

[Jungle Jumbo]

TBH burning the bails was both a one-off, sentimental and also a touch sarcastic, plus probably required little effort. Producing and burning effigies on countless occasions takes a fair bit of effort and is quite a violent act - you are effectively turning your back on the players and expressing your hatred (probably too strong a word) towards them, while the ashes were more of a symbol of mourning.

I'm reluctant to compare two cultures, but over here calling someone a donkey is supposedly quite immature behaviour - it's a fairly strong insult to some sportsmen for that reason, that you can't take them seriously. If someone painted a donkey, they'd be a) mobbed by animal rights campaigners and b) told to get a life.

 

[Pratters]

I agree regarding the animal right aspect about painting a donkey and would object to it in that respect. Generally though, I am quite tolerant to expressions. How strong a statement the people intend to make or do make via it can vary but people being able to express is the more important part for me. The people telling to get a life are also expressing, so that is fine as well..

 

[Goughy]

The donkey stuff is all very amusing.

Its things like this that are worrying

Indain fan suicide after WC loss

Another WC relatated incident
Attempted suicide

A couple of older ones

COMMITTED SUICIDE

In the 1996 World Cup, Pakistan cricket fans smashed television sets and one committed suicide amid national gloom over the country's defeat by arch-rivals India in the quarter-finals.

College student Jaffer Khan fired a burst of Kalashnikov bullets into his TV screen before turning the gun on himself in the town of Mardan in North West Frontier Province.

Link

In the West, cricket may sometimes be regarded as a sedate and gentle game. Not in South Asia. When India lost to Pakistan in a one- off one- day match at Calcutta last November, an Indian fan, Rabindranath Adhikari, committed suicide by setting himself on fire inside his own home. He was the latest in a long line of fans who have killed themselves in the face of defeat.

Link

 

[Bob Bamber]

Yes because we've got problems. India aren't even in the Super Eights. Their the ones with the problem.

 

[adharcric]

The donkry stuff is all very amusing.

Its things like this that are worrying

Indain fan suicide after WC loss

That is ridiculous. I didn't know what to say after seeing that guy's family blaming the Indian team for his death ...

 

[Fusion]

The donkry stuff is all very amusing.

Its things like this that are worrying

Indain fan suicide after WC loss

Sure that's worrying. But my point is that it's hardly an exception. Here are some examples from other nations:

South Korean fan commits suicide to help his team

Brazil fan commits suicide after team's loss

There are other examples. I'm not justifying the Indian or Pakistani idiots here. I'm merely pointing out that it's more wide-spread than people perceive. To just hammer it away as "grow up India" is tiresome.

Edit: There are also plenty of stories out there regarding fan violence that is not exlusive to India or Pakistan (including many in the United States).

 

[Pratters]

The donkey stuff is all very amusing.

Its things like this that are worrying

Indain fan suicide after WC loss

Cricket fans in India have a lot of problems. I wouldn't say problems exist only with Indians or subcontinental fans. There are various problems with various fans of various sports in various countries. Football violence cases in history are shameful to say the least. That doesn't excuse the problems related to subcontinental fans and the problems we have because of what cricket is in India. Which is why I said specifically objected only to SJS' forum posters bit.

For further reading on Indian fans, do read the following two pieces:

The Indian Fan by me.

The Desi Fan by Kesavan.

 

[Goughy]

I must admit. I do find this reluctance to accept that there are high levels of unusual behaviour a little strange. Either by downplaying it or comparing it to other bizarre incidents or countries.

The first step is to accept that the problem exists, which it certainly does.

Obviously, it goes without saying, that there are countless reasonable and rational Indian and Pakistani fans. The issue is that there is a far bigger minority than elsewhere that acts in an extreme way. There is a far greater emotional investment in the game for certain fans than found elsewhere. As we see, often to an unhealthy level.

Noone is saying Indian and Pakistani fans are all crazy, but that there is a higher proportion that act in an extreme way than found elsewhere and little can be done if the problem isnt recognised.

 

[Pratters]

I must admit. I do find this reluctance to accept that there are high levels of unusual behaviour a little strange. Either by downplaying it or comparing it to other bizarre incidents or countries.

Define unusual behaviour.

 

[Fusion]

I must admit. I do find this reluctance to accept that there are high levels of unusual behaviour a little strange. Either by downplaying it or comparing it to other bizarre incidents or countries.

The first step is to accept that the problem exists, which it certainly does.

Obviously, it goes without saying, that there are countless reasonable and rational Indian and Pakistani fans. The issue is that there is a far bigger minority than elsewhere that acts in an extreme way. There is a far greater emotional investment in the game for certain fans than found elsewhere. As we see, often to an unhealthy level.

Noone is saying Indian and Pakistani fans are all crazy, but that there is a higher proportion that act in an extreme way than found elsewhere and little can be done if the problem isnt recognised.

It's not a matter of accepting that there's a problem, or even downplaying it. Every (sane) person acknowledges these fans are extremist and are bad for the sport and their country. By pointing out that other countries have a similar problem does not excuse the behavior of Indian or Pakistani fans. I'm strongly contesting views like yours that there is a higher proportion of extreme fans in these two nations. As Pratyush pointed out, the antics of cricket fans in the subcontinent doesn't match that of the soccer fans around the world. How many cricket stadiums in India or Pakistan can you name where the fans of the two countries have to be separated due to fears of riots breaking out? How many cricket fans have killed each other in the stadium (or outside) because of the game? What tires me is the singling out of Pakistani and Indian fans as being the worst in this regard, when IMHO that's not the case.

 

[adharcric]

It's not a matter of accepting that there's a problem, or even downplaying it. Every (sane) person acknowledges these fans are extremist and are bad for the sport and their country. By pointing out that other countries have a similar problem does not excuse the behavior of Indian or Pakistani fans. I'm strongly contending views like yours that there is a higher proportion of extreme fans in these two nations. As Pratyush pointed out, the antics of cricket fans in the subcontinent doesn't match that of the soccer fans around the world. How many cricket stadiums in India or Pakistan can you name where the fans of the two countries have to be separated due to fears of riots breaking out? How many cricket fans have killed each other in the stadium (or outside) because of the game? What tires me is the singling out of Pakistani and Indian fans as being the worst in this regard, when IMHO that's not the case.

They are certainly among the worst and definitely the worst in cricket though, aren't they?

 

[Fusion]

They are certainly among the worst and definitely the worst in cricket though, aren't they?

They are the worst in Cricket, sure. Among the worst fans in sports? I don't think so.

 

[adharcric]

They are the worst in Cricket, sure. Among the worst fans in sports? I don't think so.

Really? On purely sporting grounds, they probably aren't among the worst fans in sports. If you take the media, politics and general ignorance of the masses into account, there isn't much competition for these fans.

 

[southafrica]

Calling English, West Indian and now even South African Fans

Whats wrong with you guys?
Dont you love the game?
Dont you understand that your teams are going to the dogs?
Arent you overcome by a sense of national shame? (A different type for the Carribean countries)
Cant you see who is responsible for it?​

I have not seen a single thread to kick out Bennet king, Duncan Fletcher and now even the South African coach (whatever maybe his name) !

You guys are a national disgrace

PS : Come to think of it I dont see too many former captains from your countries asking for their heads too. Aren't they interested in the job? Or is it that the money and the power that goes with it in India, isnt enough?

Are you serious. When we lose we don't burn things.... and we're the disgrace?
Our coach is called Micky Auther by the way, and he took us all the way to number one. I'm sick of peole blaming the coach when the team is beaten, its such a cop out.

Sort your game out at home before picking on the other teams.

 

[Fusion]

Are you serious. When we lose we don't burn things.... and we're the disgrace?
Our coach is called Micky Auther by the way, and he took us all the way to number one. I'm sick of peole blaming the coach when the team is beaten, its such a cop out.

Sort your game out at home before picking on the other teams.

HAHAHA. Over/under on how many people will miss the sarcasm in SJS's post??

 

[adharcric]

Are you serious. When we lose we don't burn things.... and we're the disgrace?
Our coach is called Micky Auther by the way, and he took us all the way to number one. I'm sick of peole blaming the coach when the team is beaten, its such a cop out.

Sort your game out at home before picking on the other teams.

Just quoting this for the time being in case you try to delete it.

 

[Goughy]

It's not a matter of accepting that there's a problem, or even downplaying it. Every (sane) person acknowledges these fans are extremist and are bad for the sport and their country. By pointing out that other countries have a similar problem does not excuse the behavior of Indian or Pakistani fans. I'm strongly contending views like yours that there is a higher proportion of extreme fans in these two nations. As Pratyush pointed out, the antics of cricket fans in the subcontinent doesn't match that of the soccer fans around the world. How many cricket stadiums in India or Pakistan can you name where the fans of the two countries have to be separated due to fears of riots breaking out? How many cricket fans have killed each other in the stadium (or outside) because of the game? What tires me is the singling out of Pakistani and Indian fans as being the worst in this regard, when IMHO that's not the case.

Just a few incidents.

1987 Ahmebad and Nagpur- outfielders wearing helmets due to being continuously pelted with stones

1989 Karachi- Kapil attacked after a man scaled a wall

97-98- 5 Indains hit by stones in Ind v pak game and Tendulkar taking the Indians from the field

98-99- Crowd disruptions interrupting a test after Tendulkar was runout

1989- Srikkanth attacked by Pakistani fans

1997- Inzi going into the crowd

61-62- 2nd Test Eng vs India. Major crowd troubles

1969- England tour to Pakistan- Massive crowd troubles including the 3rd test abandoned due to riots

77-78- England tour of Pakistan- Marred by continual rioting and attacks on Police and property destruction

04-05- Players walk off the field in Ind-Pak game after massive crowd trouble forcing thousands of paramilitary to attend and Helicopter gunships to patrol the ground

1999- In Calcutta the game was forced to be played (Test vs Ind-Pak) in an empty stadium after disturbances.

Well thats just a few

Ill admit I haven't read it, but here is an article on Indias cricket hooligans. No idea if its from a reputable source or any good.
http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1924/stories/20021206003810200.htm

Outside the West Indies (a place where there have been many riots) nowhere in the cricketing world has fans that behave in a similar fashion to the exteme Indian and Pakistani fans.

 

[Goughy]

They are the worst in Cricket, sure. Among the worst fans in sports? I don't think so.

But thats not a defence is it? Its like trying to explain away the dark days of English football hooliganism by mentioing that the Italians and Dutch are just as bad.

English football recognised the situation and it has been worked on and the problem massively diminished.

 

[Goughy]

Define unusual behaviour.

Anytime someone takes steps that are extreme and seperate to the norm course of action that the vast majority of fans would undertake.

It could be wierd or crazy like a football supporter getting the face of his favourite player tatooed on his chest or the paining of a donkey

It could be when people have too much national pride and self worth tied into a particular sporting event that they have zero control over and react badly ie the burning of effigies, destruction of property, protest marches etc.

Basically, anytime a sporting event leads to an emotional condition that makes people do things they wouldnt usually consider doing. eg the attacks on BMWs and Audis when England get beat at football by Germany.

The problem for me, playing with and talking with many Indians and Pakistanis is that the performance of the team is too tightly tied to the national pride and emotional well being for a large minority of fans.

No doubt there are incidents around the world that draw parallels (sp?) but Indian and Pakistani cricket kinda pulls it all together in a big group ie Riots, attacks, protests, burnings and as mentioned earlier suicide.

I would class all as unusual behaviour. By no means the only place where such incidents happen, but they do happen with a regularity that should be recognised as a problem