England captaincy and ODIs

Poker Boy · 08-04-2007, 07:27 AM

Still no centuaries for Vaughan in ODIs - and I'll be amazed if he gets one in this WC - it makes me think. Do England even consider one-day cricket when it comes to captaincy? Vaughan is not the first example of this - Nasser Hussain admits in his book he wasn't good at one-day cricket and Mike Atherton started the summer of 1993 out of the ODI team and ended it as captain! And of course if Vaughan goes as captain after this WC Strauss might be the new captain - and he hasn't got into the WC team until today.The funny thing is the other countries seem to have captains that deserve their place in Test AND ODI cricket -the only non English captain I can think of who wasn't worthy of an ODI place was MarkTaylor (one ODI centuary in his career, none before he became captain). IMO England either should split the captaincy or pick a man who is worthy of a place in both forms of the game - because lets face it if Vaughan wasn't captain he wouldn't be playing today. To think - Vaughan got the ODI captaincy after the last WC because of brilliant TEST performances. Go figure...

Ash_A55 · 08-04-2007, 07:28 AM

Vaughan needs to be dropped simple

readie · 08-04-2007, 07:46 AM

Kevin Pietersen should captain England. He'll captain England with some fire he's cemented his side in the team and seems to be the type of player who performs under pressure or when the chips are down.

He's one of the only players in their team (Collingwood,and Flintoff aside) who could play anysort of Captain's Knock.

PhoenixFire · 08-04-2007, 10:15 AM

Collingwood should be captain in both forms of the game, and Vaughan should be dropped until he gets fit.

Ash_A55 · 08-04-2007, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chopper6

Kevin Pietersen should captain England. He'll captain England with some fire he's cemented his side in the team and seems to be the type of player who performs under pressure or when the chips are down.

He's one of the only players in their team (Collingwood,and Flintoff aside) who could play anysort of Captain's Knock.

Good Shout

DCC_legend · 08-04-2007, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chopper6

Kevin Pietersen should captain England. He'll captain England with some fire he's cemented his side in the team and seems to be the type of player who performs under pressure or when the chips are down.

He's one of the only players in their team (Collingwood,and Flintoff aside) who could play anysort of Captain's Knock.

You can't just say KP to captain england because he can hit the ball around the park. OK, he is the best player in the England team, but what about his captaincy skills?
Would he be able to get the players going when there backs are against the wall?
What about Bowling strategies? When to take power plays etc.

He might be able to play a "captains knock" but if he can't get the team going, to justify his knock, i don't think there is any chance of him being captain.

Richard · 08-04-2007, 12:34 PM

It's pretty obvious that England selectors take ages and sometimes fail completely to recognise that a player good at one form of the game can (and is - quite often - too) be poor at the other. Usually it's good at Tests and crap at ODIs, too. Which means that ODIs are usually the form that suffer most.

I can't see any option as the next ODI captain (and above all I hope and pray that Vaughan's Test captaincy credentials aren't called into question the coming summer) without some serious caveats. Pietersen genuinely does seem the best option - and Pietersen as captain has the potential to be a recipe for disaster in several areas. It also, of course, has the potential to be a phenominal success and knowing Pietersen it'd be odds-law that it would end-up being. But I don't think it's a decision that could be taken without a hell of an ominous feeling.

Richard · 08-04-2007, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhoenixFire

Collingwood should be captain in both forms of the game, and Vaughan should be dropped until he gets fit.

Collingwood Test captain?

DCC_legend · 08-04-2007, 12:41 PM

Maybe Strauss as test captian until Vaughan proves he's fit at county level. Then Bring Vaughan back into the fold.

Richard · 08-04-2007, 01:51 PM

TBH, I don't see that Vaughan's not fit. His knee appears to be fine for the moment. Sure, he's only played one-day games since his comeback, but right now if he gets through the rest of the Cup I'd be perfectly happy to put him straight back in the Test side on May 17th.

Obviously, if at any point he's not available, Strauss should be next in line in the Test side.

Ash_A55 · 08-04-2007, 01:55 PM

Strauss is good tactically, because of the job he does at Middlesex. However a KP/Flintoff style skipper, would show real passion an heart. We have no one who falls into both categories.

Richard · 08-04-2007, 02:05 PM

TBH, I'm less than convinced about Strauss tactically. He's perfectly sound, there are no glaring holes the way there, occasionally, are with Flintoff, but he's no genius or anything. And his Middlesex experience is overrated, too - he did the job for 1 whole season.

Ash_A55 · 08-04-2007, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

And his Middlesex experience is overrated, too - he did the job for 1 whole season.

Thanks for pointing that out, I thought he had it for 2-3 seasons. Hmm my view on the matter has changed, slightly.

Richard · 08-04-2007, 02:10 PM

Yeah - appointed for the 2003 season, England regular within a year.
Think he's played 6 or 7 First-Class games for Middx at best since the Lord's Test of 2004.

Ash_A55 · 08-04-2007, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

Yeah - appointed for the 2003 season, England regular within a year.
Think he's played 6 or 7 First-Class games for Middx at best since the Lord's Test of 2004.

Thats the problem with having England players at your club, they play 3-4 games a season.

08-04-2007, 07:27 AM	#1 (permalink)
Poker Boy State Vice-Captain Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Kilbirnie, Scotland Posts: 1,105	England captaincy and ODIs Still no centuaries for Vaughan in ODIs - and I'll be amazed if he gets one in this WC - it makes me think. Do England even consider one-day cricket when it comes to captaincy? Vaughan is not the first example of this - Nasser Hussain admits in his book he wasn't good at one-day cricket and Mike Atherton started the summer of 1993 out of the ODI team and ended it as captain! And of course if Vaughan goes as captain after this WC Strauss might be the new captain - and he hasn't got into the WC team until today.The funny thing is the other countries seem to have captains that deserve their place in Test AND ODI cricket -the only non English captain I can think of who wasn't worthy of an ODI place was MarkTaylor (one ODI centuary in his career, none before he became captain). IMO England either should split the captaincy or pick a man who is worthy of a place in both forms of the game - because lets face it if Vaughan wasn't captain he wouldn't be playing today. To think - Vaughan got the ODI captaincy after the last WC because of brilliant TEST performances. Go figure... __________________ Ian Botham, Freddie Flintoff, Kevin Pietersen, Brian Laudrup, Gazza and Daniela Hantuchova....a fan of you all FOREVER!!! Can't wait to see Australia field a crap leg-spinner like Hollland or Hohns again..... Congratulations to Daniela Hantuchova on her 3rd career title.... Bob Woolmer 1948-2007..farewell to the best coach England never had... Arise Sir Beefy.... Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble, Grubb...

08-04-2007, 07:28 AM	#2 (permalink)
Ash_A55 U19 Captain Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: England Posts: 626	Vaughan needs to be dropped simple __________________ Proudly supporting pink bat grips The best FC player in the dev league 189 on debut

08-04-2007, 07:46 AM	#3 (permalink)
readie State Regular Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 934	Kevin Pietersen should captain England. He'll captain England with some fire he's cemented his side in the team and seems to be the type of player who performs under pressure or when the chips are down. He's one of the only players in their team (Collingwood,and Flintoff aside) who could play anysort of Captain's Knock. __________________ http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/4...bannerever.png

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08-04-2007, 12:41 PM	#9 (permalink)
DCC_legend International Regular Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 3,069	Maybe Strauss as test captian until Vaughan proves he's fit at county level. Then Bring Vaughan back into the fold.

08-04-2007, 01:51 PM	#10 (permalink)
Richard Cricket Web Staff Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: 2005 Posts: 80,407	TBH, I don't see that Vaughan's not fit. His knee appears to be fine for the moment. Sure, he's only played one-day games since his comeback, but right now if he gets through the rest of the Cup I'd be perfectly happy to put him straight back in the Test side on May 17th. Obviously, if at any point he's not available, Strauss should be next in line in the Test side.

08-04-2007, 01:55 PM	#11 (permalink)
Ash_A55 U19 Captain Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: England Posts: 626	Strauss is good tactically, because of the job he does at Middlesex. However a KP/Flintoff style skipper, would show real passion an heart. We have no one who falls into both categories.

08-04-2007, 02:05 PM	#12 (permalink)
Richard Cricket Web Staff Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: 2005 Posts: 80,407	TBH, I'm less than convinced about Strauss tactically. He's perfectly sound, there are no glaring holes the way there, occasionally, are with Flintoff, but he's no genius or anything. And his Middlesex experience is overrated, too - he did the job for 1 whole season.

08-04-2007, 02:10 PM	#14 (permalink)
Richard Cricket Web Staff Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: 2005 Posts: 80,407	Yeah - appointed for the 2003 season, England regular within a year. Think he's played 6 or 7 First-Class games for Middx at best since the Lord's Test of 2004.

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