England captaincy and ODIs

[Richard]

Run-rates were not a lot lower - there were many instances of 100 being scored in the first 15, bats were far better than they had been 10 years previously (and even 5), and ropes were no further in than in, say, 2003.

 

[Perm]

I doubt Pietersen being captain would have made the slightest mark on any of those, TBH.

Agree, it's unlikely that he would have been able to influence such a major decision by the selectors.

Something that makes me laugh, really, is the assumption that Pietersen being captain would make the side more aggressive. Good a batsman as he is, he can't change the skills of any the other players in the side. Nor do we know what if any captaincy credentials he has - he might be aggressive, he might also be 100% clueless and try to place mid-ons and end-up placing square-legs (exaggeration, but you know what I mean).

And TBH, Pietersen doesn't strike me as "captaincy material". Having said that, of course, Hussain didn't strike many as such in 1996. And yet within a year he was vice-captain. The reality is that the only way to find-out would be to try, and that involves taking risks which you could potentially not take.

Of course he can't change the skills of the other players, but he can develop a much more aggressive attitude towards the cricket and opposition. You can see that Pietersen thrives against the best and this kind of attitude, if instilled into the other players, would make England a far better ODI team. He may not have the tactical nous to suceeed, that's why I mentioned it in one of my previous posts if memory serves. However, potentially if he did develop this sort of tactical ability then I could see him being quite a good captain, time will tell though.

 

[open365]

Agree, it's unlikely that he would have been able to influence such a major decision by the selectors.



Of course he can't change the skills of the other players, but he can develop a much more aggressive attitude towards the cricket and opposition. You can see that Pietersen thrives against the best and this kind of attitude, if instilled into the other players, would make England a far better ODI team. He may not have the tactical nous to suceeed, that's why I mentioned it in one of my previous posts if memory serves. However, potentially if he did develop this sort of tactical ability then I could see him being quite a good captain, time will tell though.

Would Kevin Pietersen being captain make Ed Joyce score quicker? No

Did Micheal Vaughan as captain make Kevin Pietersen bat slower? No

The effect a captain has on a team is over rated, KP giving a team talk isn't going to make our players "More agressive" whatever that really means.

 

[Richard]

Yeah, Bowman sums-up my feelings quite well.

Honestly don't see Pietersen having the captaincy making us better. That doesn't mean it wouldn't - but if someone appointed him and it worked, they'd just have picked lucky IMO.

 

[Perm]

Would Kevin Pietersen being captain make Ed Joyce score quicker? No

Did Micheal Vaughan as captain make Kevin Pietersen bat slower? No

The effect a captain has on a team is over rated, KP giving a team talk isn't going to make our players "More agressive" whatever that really means.

I was referring to general attitude on players, not in specific cases. Obviously he won't have that big of an impact on every single player, but with an aggressive personality and obvious leadership skills he can raise the spirits of a side IMO. He has certainly had an effect on Ian Bell in ODI cricket, especially Bell's decision to walk down the wicket to fast bowlers.

Yeah, Bowman sums-up my feelings quite well.

Honestly don't see Pietersen having the captaincy making us better. That doesn't mean it wouldn't - but if someone appointed him and it worked, they'd just have picked lucky IMO.

Disagree entirely, I think it's quite obvious that Pietersen has leadership potential. You can tell from the way he acts and the respect that his team-mates have for him.

 

[Richard]

That respect being such that newspapers can still infer nonsense about him not being a ubiquitous "team player"?

 

[open365]

I was referring to general attitude on players, not in specific cases. Obviously he won't have that big of an impact on every single player, but with an aggressive personality and obvious leadership skills he can raise the spirits of a side IMO. He has certainly had an effect on Ian Bell in ODI cricket, especially Bell's decision to walk down the wicket to fast bowlers.

1) Bell's going down the wicket is bloody useless as he just blocks it all the time anyway
2) How is it in anyway certain that Bell does that because of the KP? It baffles me how you've even made the link between Kevin Pietersen and Ian Bell coming down the pitch, it's not as if KP invented walking down the wicket is it?

 

[Richard]

Bell in fact started doing that when Pietersen was at home nursing that rib.

 

[marc71178]

Run-rates were not a lot lower - there were many instances of 100 being scored in the first 15

Go on then.

Name some of these many occasions...

 

[Perm]

That respect being such that newspapers can still infer nonsense about him not being a ubiquitous "team player"?

Seriously, you are using the media as a way to back up your argument? Poor form.

1) Bell's going down the wicket is bloody useless as he just blocks it all the time anyway
2) How is it in anyway certain that Bell does that because of the KP? It baffles me how you've even made the link between Kevin Pietersen and Ian Bell coming down the pitch, it's not as if KP invented walking down the wicket is it?

Not saying it's effective, but the intent is quite clearly there. When Bell was dropped from England's test side he stated in the media that he was trying to become more aggressive, and Kevin Pietersen was helping him with that. I can't quote the exact line or anything, but they were words to that effect. I'm not trying to diefy Pietersen by any means, but I think he can have a positive effect on his team-mates if he were captain.

 

[honestbharani]

In this day and age, yes.

Since 2000, the international schedule has been ridiculous.

That is another problem, isn't it??? The grooming of future captains through FC cricket seems to be a lost practice now, thanks to the type of scheduling we are having in international cricket.

 

[Poker Boy]

I wouldn't have KP as captain - I've this feeling he might be like Lara (and by all accounts Boycott) and be too obsessed with his own batting to concentrate on the team. Egomaniacs do not make great captains. I'd split the captaincy - why we are so against it I don't know - it worked for Australia with Taylor/S Waugh and then S Waugh/Ponting and we're usually obsessed with Australia - keep Vaughan in tests - he's scored runs in the past and his dreadful fielding (yesterday's sitter is by no means his first) isn't as important - and give the one-day job to Collingwood - a player worth his place in the ODI team, but not the star player and more of a team man than KP. One other point - it seems to me that the captains of other countries seem to be worthy of a place in the team in both formats and the fact that England do this so often (Vaughan is not the first case) suggests we don't take ODIs as seriously but we know that already. After all on tours the likes of CMJ often go home after the Tests and the Barmy Army aren't seen as much either (CMJ having something in common with the Barmy Army. I bet you he's horrified at the thought.)

 

[Richard]

Seriously, you are using the media as a way to back up your argument? Poor form.

I'm less than convinced by said inferred stuff, certainly. But it's certainly not impossible that there's something there, even if it's very probably exaggerated.

I'm not 100% convinced Pietersen has the undiluted respect of all regular England players, the way Vaughan has done since 2004.

 

[Richard]

Go on then.

Name some of these many occasions...

Try reading this, written in 1996.

The use of pinch-hitters was one such method, much discussed and granted more significance than it merited, but it was certainly the case that the successful teams no longer looked to accrue the majority of their runs in the closing overs of their innings. Instead of settling for 60 or 70 runs from the initial 15 overs, when fielding restrictions applied, teams were now looking to pass the 100 mark. On the blissful batting pitches encountered here, it was seldom impossible. Sri Lanka, through their fearless openers, Sanath Jayasuriya - later to be named the Most Valued Player of the Tournament - and Romesh Kaluwitharana, were the trendsetters and, as the outcome proved, nobody did it better.

And the link.

 

[marc71178]

What, you mean 1996 when his career was coming to an end?

Yes, I can see the relevance of batsmen in that subcontinent world cup to Atherton opening the innings most of the time in England.

 

[Richard]

Atherton was 28 in 1998, and this was before his back started to really affect him - he could quite conceivably have played for another 10 years at that point.

Using hindsight does not enhance your point.

The fact is, ODIs had for quite a while by 1996 been a different game. That English players were slow to pick-up the trend does not change anything.