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Thread: England captaincy and ODIs

  1. #46
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    That respect being such that newspapers can still infer nonsense about him not being a ubiquitous "team player"?
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  2. #47
    International Vice-Captain open365's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perm View Post
    I was referring to general attitude on players, not in specific cases. Obviously he won't have that big of an impact on every single player, but with an aggressive personality and obvious leadership skills he can raise the spirits of a side IMO. He has certainly had an effect on Ian Bell in ODI cricket, especially Bell's decision to walk down the wicket to fast bowlers.

    1) Bell's going down the wicket is bloody useless as he just blocks it all the time anyway
    2) How is it in anyway certain that Bell does that because of the KP? It baffles me how you've even made the link between Kevin Pietersen and Ian Bell coming down the pitch, it's not as if KP invented walking down the wicket is it?

  3. #48
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Bell in fact started doing that when Pietersen was at home nursing that rib.

  4. #49
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Run-rates were not a lot lower - there were many instances of 100 being scored in the first 15
    Go on then.

    Name some of these many occasions...
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  5. #50
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Perm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    That respect being such that newspapers can still infer nonsense about him not being a ubiquitous "team player"?
    Seriously, you are using the media as a way to back up your argument? Poor form.

    Quote Originally Posted by open365 View Post
    1) Bell's going down the wicket is bloody useless as he just blocks it all the time anyway
    2) How is it in anyway certain that Bell does that because of the KP? It baffles me how you've even made the link between Kevin Pietersen and Ian Bell coming down the pitch, it's not as if KP invented walking down the wicket is it?
    Not saying it's effective, but the intent is quite clearly there. When Bell was dropped from England's test side he stated in the media that he was trying to become more aggressive, and Kevin Pietersen was helping him with that. I can't quote the exact line or anything, but they were words to that effect. I'm not trying to diefy Pietersen by any means, but I think he can have a positive effect on his team-mates if he were captain.
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  6. #51
    Hall of Fame Member honestbharani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    In this day and age, yes.

    Since 2000, the international schedule has been ridiculous.
    That is another problem, isn't it??? The grooming of future captains through FC cricket seems to be a lost practice now, thanks to the type of scheduling we are having in international cricket.
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  7. #52
    State Vice-Captain Poker Boy's Avatar
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    I wouldn't have KP as captain - I've this feeling he might be like Lara (and by all accounts Boycott) and be too obsessed with his own batting to concentrate on the team. Egomaniacs do not make great captains. I'd split the captaincy - why we are so against it I don't know - it worked for Australia with Taylor/S Waugh and then S Waugh/Ponting and we're usually obsessed with Australia - keep Vaughan in tests - he's scored runs in the past and his dreadful fielding (yesterday's sitter is by no means his first) isn't as important - and give the one-day job to Collingwood - a player worth his place in the ODI team, but not the star player and more of a team man than KP. One other point - it seems to me that the captains of other countries seem to be worthy of a place in the team in both formats and the fact that England do this so often (Vaughan is not the first case) suggests we don't take ODIs as seriously but we know that already. After all on tours the likes of CMJ often go home after the Tests and the Barmy Army aren't seen as much either (CMJ having something in common with the Barmy Army. I bet you he's horrified at the thought.)
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  8. #53
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perm View Post
    Seriously, you are using the media as a way to back up your argument? Poor form.
    I'm less than convinced by said inferred stuff, certainly. But it's certainly not impossible that there's something there, even if it's very probably exaggerated.

    I'm not 100% convinced Pietersen has the undiluted respect of all regular England players, the way Vaughan has done since 2004.

  9. #54
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178 View Post
    Go on then.

    Name some of these many occasions...
    Try reading this, written in 1996.
    The use of pinch-hitters was one such method, much discussed and granted more significance than it merited, but it was certainly the case that the successful teams no longer looked to accrue the majority of their runs in the closing overs of their innings. Instead of settling for 60 or 70 runs from the initial 15 overs, when fielding restrictions applied, teams were now looking to pass the 100 mark. On the blissful batting pitches encountered here, it was seldom impossible. Sri Lanka, through their fearless openers, Sanath Jayasuriya - later to be named the Most Valued Player of the Tournament - and Romesh Kaluwitharana, were the trendsetters and, as the outcome proved, nobody did it better.
    And the link.

  10. #55
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    What, you mean 1996 when his career was coming to an end?

    Yes, I can see the relevance of batsmen in that subcontinent world cup to Atherton opening the innings most of the time in England.

  11. #56
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Atherton was 28 in 1998, and this was before his back started to really affect him - he could quite conceivably have played for another 10 years at that point.

    Using hindsight does not enhance your point.

    The fact is, ODIs had for quite a while by 1996 been a different game. That English players were slow to pick-up the trend does not change anything.

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