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**Official** India in Bangladesh

Anil

Hall of Fame Member
Have to disagree with that part in particular. Dravid failed in South Africa while Tendulkar didn't play in the West Indies. In that Test India lost at home against England, everyone failed. Anyway, my issue isn't with the content of the article so much...there are some valid criticisms although I generally disagree with them...it's that the tone of the article is overly negative imo and I find the timing of it perplexing.
dravid failed in s.a, he was due for a failure after carrying the baton around alone for so long, tendulkar was not a huge success(this is an understatement, he scraped together some runs but in my books, every indian batsman except ganguly and laxman(to an extent) failed there) there either if that's what you are getting at....
 
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Manee

Cricketer Of The Year
I think what everyone who supports my point of view is saying is that the article is premature and Tendulkar is far from due critisism yet.
 

Anil

Hall of Fame Member
I think what everyone who supports my point of view is saying is that the article is premature and Tendulkar is far from due critisism yet.
...and what i am saying is that he has been due some valid criticism for a while now and these hundreds against bangladesh should not be enough to make them go away....
 

Dasa

International Vice-Captain
it's not really as simple as that and you know it...in this case, you are talking about the most experienced batsman in cricket today and he is facing the weakest side(if you don't count the zimbabwe club side as an international team) in international cricket in conditions that offer little to no help to the bowlers and with your team completely on top...
So what? It's still not as if he didn't make any runs at all. He made 122* ffs. Why criticise him now? I know what you're getting at, and I'll clarify it now (although I think I implied this anyway) - I don't think 'Tendulkar is back' because of a couple of innings against Bangladesh. I just don't think that the criticism coming from that article is really warranted, and the article author(s) went too far imo in suggesting Tendulkar is a selfish batsman or anything like that. Anyway, as I've said before, the real test will come against England.
dravid failed in s.a, he was due for a failure after carrying the baton around alone for so long, tendulkar was not a huge success there either if that's what you are getting at....
It's not what I'm getting at. I was just pointing out that what you said wasn't quite accurate.
 

Manee

Cricketer Of The Year
...and what i am saying is that he has been due some valid criticism for a while now and these hundreds against bangladesh should not be enough to make them go away....
I understand that scoring a hundred against Bangladesh should not halt criticism but do you believe it should start it?
 

Dasa

International Vice-Captain
...and what i am saying is that he has been due some valid criticism for a while now and these hundreds against bangladesh should not be enough to make them go away....
...but that's not what the article is about. IF the article was indeed criticising Tendulkar for his prolonged period of poor performance, then that would be fine. However, this article focused solely on his innings' versus Bangladesh in this series and such harsh criticism of these two knocks isn't warranted.
 

Manee

Cricketer Of The Year
I understand that scoring a hundred against Bangladesh should not halt criticism but do you believe it should start it?
...but that's not what the article is about. IF the article was indeed criticising Tendulkar for his prolonged period of poor performance, then that would be fine. However, this article focused solely on his innings' versus Bangladesh in this series and such harsh criticism of these two knocks isn't warranted.
Great minds think alike eH?
 

Anil

Hall of Fame Member
So what? It's still not as if he didn't make any runs at all. He made 122* ffs. Why criticise him now? I know what you're getting at, and I'll clarify it now (although I think I implied this anyway) - I don't think 'Tendulkar is back' because of a couple of innings against Bangladesh. I just don't think that the criticism coming from that article is really warranted, and the article author(s) went too far imo in suggesting Tendulkar is a selfish batsman or anything like that. Anyway, as I've said before, the real test will come against England.
i would love to say that tendulkar is an unselfish batsman as well(i have believed that for any number of years myself) but from what the article pointed out about his scoring rate(and compared it to the others) especially nearing his century, it looked like 1. he is definitely not in the best of touch 2. he was indeed playing for his century rather than for upping the team's run rate....now if the team was ok with him keeping one end and working on his 100 while having the other batsman work on the run rate, i don't have anything further to say on it, but if not, it doesn't show him in the best light, does it?

It's not what I'm getting at. I was just pointing out that what you said wasn't quite accurate.
fair enough...although dravid has still been india's best(and very often only) away/back-to-the-walls/unfriendly-scenarios batsman for quite some time now inspite of that failure....
 

Manee

Cricketer Of The Year
Anil said:
i would love to say that tendulkar is an unselfish batsman as well(i have believed that for any number of years myself) but from what the article pointed out about his scoring rate(and compared it to the others) especially nearing his century, it looked like 1. he is definitely not in the best of touch 2. he was indeed playing for his century rather than for upping the team's run rate....now if the team was ok with him keeping one end and working on his 100 while having the other batsman work on the run rate, i don't have anything further to say on it, but if not, it doesn't show him in the best light, does it?
Maybe Tendulkar was thinking:
'The acceleration is going fine, why hinder it by losing my wicket?'
 

Dasa

International Vice-Captain
i would love to say that tendulkar is an unselfish batsman as well(i have believed that for any number of years myself) but from what the article pointed out about his scoring rate(and compared it to the others) especially nearing his century, it looked like 1. he is definitely not in the best of touch 2. he was indeed playing for his century rather than for upping the team's run rate....now if the team was ok with him keeping one end and working on his 100 while having the other batsman work on the run rate, i don't have anything further to say on it, but if not, it doesn't show him in the best light, does it?
Personally (and I've changed my view of this from the past), I reckon you'd be hard pressed to find any player in international cricket who would pursue their own personal goals ahead of what's best for the team. I don't know what was going through his mind while he was approaching his hundred today, but I doubt he was consciously thinking about his hundred while forgetting about the best result for the team.
fair enough...although dravid has still been india's best(and very often only) away/back-to-the-walls/unfriendly-scenarios batsman for quite some time now inspite of that failure....
Yeah, definitely agreed.
 

Anil

Hall of Fame Member
I understand that scoring a hundred against Bangladesh should not halt criticism but do you believe it should start it?
why do you think it is starting anything? just because it came at a time when he hit a century? no, this is just like the criticism when he was not scoring runs, for a player of his calibre, lack of fluency against bangladesh is just an indication that he isn't out of the woods yet...
 

Manee

Cricketer Of The Year
No, he hit 85-90 consistantly in the ODIs, he slowed down in the tests because you cannot bowl long spells of quick pace.

Read:

his cricinfo profile said:
Though he struggles to find his radar at times, he is undoubtedly a genuine fast bowler in the making.
Ian Bishop said:
"VRV is only a baby; to me he is starting to bowl better with every game," said Bishop, currently working as a television commentator. "I don't know if he'll be playing in this game, but I think if they cast him away now because he's had limited success, it will be to his detriment because he gets pace, he gets bounce, and he looks a very good prospect. He should not be put away; he should be encouraged."
cricinfo said:
UP's collapse began after Zaheer Khan removed Praveen Kumar for a first-ball duck and Tanmay Srivastava committed hara-kiri by running himself out. Lakshmipathy Balaji prised out Shivakant Shukla, the first-innings top scorer, to rock the top order before VRV Singh harassed the lower-middle order with his pace and lift.
AND: http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/ci/content/story/143710.html
 
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Manee

Cricketer Of The Year
You make it seem like he's the new Malinga. :mellow:

India's quickest pace is rest-of-the-world's medium-fast. It's just such a damn mystery.
He is called medium fast because cricinfo have not really seen him bowl often. Cricinfo do not watch Indian domestic cricket, nor do I since I live in England, but the point is clear that they rarely see him bowl.
 

adharcric

International Coach
VRV apparently lost some pace due to injuries (nothing new with our bowlers) but he is still fast-medium. He really doesn't swing, seam or cut it too much but his pace and bounce will make him a good bowler if he can stay consistent with the line and avoid the no-balls.

By the way, how did Ishant bowl today? I know he is quite accurate and generates decent pace (mid-80s) but did he make the ball talk at all during his limited spell?
 
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Turbinator

Cricketer Of The Year
Just a premature question, what bowling attack do you guys think we should take to England?

EDIT: Assuming everyone's fit.
 

adharcric

International Coach
You make it seem like he's the new Malinga. :mellow:

India's quickest pace is rest-of-the-world's medium-fast. It's just such a damn mystery.
Actually, India's quickest seamer is Sreesanth and he is quick (but not express) by "rest-of-the-world's" standards as well. Stock deliveries at 87 mph will suffice for someone who can utilize swing and seam.
 
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