Ranji and Duleep - the first great subcontinental batsmen ?

[Salamuddin]

Just wondering how people here rate these two gentlemen (KS Ranjitsinji and KS Duleepsinhji) vis a vis some of the other pre-war greats (e.g Headley, Hammond, Hutton, Grace etc...)...

[Richard]

Duleepsinjhi was good.

Ranjitsinjhi was one of the best batsmen of his time. That time, however, is not one which we can compare knowingly with anything after it. It's like comparing Trumper to Chappell.

Quiet at the hospital, is it?

[Salamuddin]

Originally Posted by Richard

Duleepsinjhi was good.

Ranjitsinjhi was one of the best batsmen of his time. That time, however, is not one which we can compare knowingly with anything after it. It's like comparing Trumper to Chappell.

Quiet at the hospital, is it?

CW is addictive......but I won't be around that much....

[Richard]

Pah, another faked goodbye...

[a massive zebra]

Ranjitsinhji was undoutedly the greatest batsman in the world from 1895 to 1902, an almost mystical presence, and along with CB Fry he formed probably the most potent batting pairing in the history of the county championship. Their dominance really does beggar belief:

In the 1899 county championship Ranji scored 2,285 runs at 76.16 with 7 centuries and Fry 1,579 at 42.67 with 3 centuries. The next best Sussex batsman was George Brann with 1,224 at 32.21 with 2 centuries.

In the 1900 county championship Ranji scored 2,563 runs at 85.43 with 9 centuries and Fry 1,830 at 63.10 with 9 centuries. The next best Sussex batsman was Ernest Killick with 1,177 at 34.61 with 2 centuries.

In the 1901 county championship Ranji scored 2,067 runs at 76.55 with 7 centuries and Fry 2,382 at 74.43 with 9 centuries. The next best Sussex batsman was Ernest Killick with 1,186 at 37.06 with 2 centuries.

In the 1902 county championship Ranji scored 866 runs at 66.61 with 3 centuries and Fry 1,072 at 41.23 with 3 centuries. The next best Sussex batsman was Joe Vine with 1,083 at 30.08 with no centuries.

In the 1903 county championship Ranji scored 1,394 runs at 58.08 with 4 centuries and Fry 2,413 at 80.43 with 8 centuries. The next best Sussex batsman was Ernest Killick with 1,026 at 33.09 with no centuries.

In the 1904 county championship Ranji scored 1,330 runs at 73.88 with 4 centuries and Fry 2,376 at 79.20 with 9 centuries. The next best Sussex batsman was Joe Vine with 1,189 at 36.03 with 4 centuries.

Ranji was a great not just because he scored so many runs but also because he overcame clever tactical decisions designed to exploit his weaknesses by inventing new strokes. At the onset of greatness Ranji was almost exclusively a leg side player, so opposing teams tried to restrict his game by bowling wide outside offstump. Ranji quickly overcame this by manufacturing a glorious cut stroke the like of which had never been seen before. Then opponents endeavoured to cramp his game by putting in additional short legs and other close in leg side fielders, so, without abandoning his delightful strokes on that side of the wicket, or his beautifully timed cuts, he probably got the majority of his runs in later years by drives - a very notable change indeed from his early years as a great cricketer.

A not very well known fact about Ranji is that he suffered from asthma.

[a massive zebra]

Originally Posted by Salamuddin

Just wondering how people here rate these two gentlemen (KS Ranjitsinji and KS Duleepsinhji) vis a vis some of the other pre-war greats (e.g Headley, Hammond, Hutton, Grace etc...)...

WG Grace himself admitted that Ranji was technically a better player than he had ever been.

[archie mac]

Originally Posted by a massive zebra

WG Grace himself admitted that Ranji was technically a better player than he had ever been.

Ranji never played a christian shot in his life

[archie mac]

I think Ranji deserves to be remembered as one of the greatest batsman of all time.

Duleep was unlucky in that he became quite ill when at the peak of his powers, otherwise he would also be rated an all time great

[Richard]

Originally Posted by archie mac

Ranji never played a christian shot in his life

Inzy?

[Richard]

Originally Posted by a massive zebra

Ranjitsinhji was undoutedly the greatest batsman in the world from 1895 to 1902, an almost mystical presence, and along with CB Fry he formed probably the most potent batting pairing in the history of the county championship.

*Cough*Edrich and Compton*Cough*

[JBH001]

While it might be arousing the wrath of Richard here, was that not in one season only?
Cant remember which one, the one where they both I think, scored 16/17 centuries or somewhere therebouts, it was 1947 or 1948 maybe?

Ranji and Fry did it together for longer, though Compton and Edrich may have been better for a comparatively shorter period of time. Imo, if this is so the plaudits should go to the longer lived partners in the country championship - namely Ranji and Fry.

However, I would take AMZ's praise of Ranji (most of it truly deserved) with a pinch of salt. Ranji really *ahem* blotted his copybook by his complete and disastrous failure against the 1902 Australians - Australia's first all time great XI.

[Richard]

Ranji and Fry inexplicably lost form that season, and that season alone, and not exclusively in the Tests.

Compton and Edrich's magnum opus was 1947, sure, they broke all records that season (48 was the Invincibles tour), but they were one hell of a long-term partnership, too, don't underestimate that. They're best remembered for 1947, but such a thing perhaps does them a disservice. They were both around pre-WWII, and were still at the crease together, for England, as The Ashes were regained in 1953.

[archie mac]

Originally Posted by JBH001

While it might be arousing the wrath of Richard here, was that not in one season only?
Cant remember which one, the one where they both I think, scored 16/17 centuries or somewhere therebouts, it was 1947 or 1948 maybe?

Ranji and Fry did it together for longer, though Compton and Edrich may have been better for a comparatively shorter period of time. Imo, if this is so the plaudits should go to the longer lived partners in the country championship - namely Ranji and Fry.

However, I would take AMZ's praise of Ranji (most of it truly deserved) with a pinch of salt. Ranji really *ahem* blotted his copybook by his complete and disastrous failure against the 1902 Australians - Australia's first all time great XI.

1882 Australians

[archie mac]

Originally Posted by Richard

Inzy?

That is one of the most famous comments about Ranji, from a well known Pro. I won't tell you which one though

[Richard]

Ah.........

The

quote

function does wonders, y'know... or even just a "quote".