Sunil blasts the Australians

[Richard]

No, we're saying that he's wrong to call the West Indians saintly in comparison.

 

[Matt79]

I dont get this, can someone explain please ?

Are you guys saying that 'Gavaskar is wrong' and that this 'Aussie team is really a bunch of saints who are so respectful all the time to other teams' ?

I'm bemused as to why he felt the need to make these comments, and am suggesting that he's wrong to say that the Australians are much worse than several other teams currently doing the rounds, and wrong to say that they are much worse than several others teams from the past.

I also have to say that I really don't have a problem with 90% of what the Australian team does on and off the field, and don't really care if others, like Mr Gavaskar, do have a problem.

 

[Richard]

I'm bemused as to why he felt the need to make these comments

He's certainly made them before so I'd guess he'll feel the need to keep making them.

 

[honestbharani]

So how many other teams have kicked down stumps or barged into umpires when something doesn't go their own way?

How many teams keep yelling at umpires till they give the right decision? How many teams publicly remonstrate an umpire in the middle of the field for not giving the decision in their favour? How many captains have said demeaning things to an umpire on the cricket field? How many teams appeal for a hit wicket when one of their own players throws a bail off the batsman's stumps? How many teams indulge in personal sledging on the cricket field at every given opportunity?



Look, I have had the opportunity to meet a lot of these Australian players in person and some of them are really really nice guys, some of the best blokes one can meet. Very down to earth for famous sportspersons. But somehow a lot of them just seem to think thatin the field, they can do whatever they want to do and get away with it.


And as far as Windies not being saintly when compared to this Australian side, I reckon the way the rest of the world talked about them then (and even now for that matter) shows it all. I am not sure if you will find too many kind words towards this Australian bunch. And its not like that West Indies side lacked aggression in the field. There is a difference between playing aggressively and just being spoilt brats on the field. And Australia have been on the other side far too many times. On the one hand you have nice blokes like Gilly, Martyn (perhaps Langer) etc. (Brett Lee against most sides is rather nice, but isn't the same against England or New Zealand for some reason). So many past players wont rave about the 80s Windies side this much if they weren't pretty nice guys. I guess the fact that they didn't shoot out too many personal insults on the field helped them get this reputation.

 

[C_C]

Is this the same Gavaskar that when he got a decision he didn't like in 1981 ordered his partner off the field with him and if it wasn't for the manager they would have forfeited a Test 25 years before Inzy did? People in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones...

Yes the very same. Considering how biassed Aussie umpiring used to be at that time, particularly with racist overtones, its not surprising Gavaskar chose his actions against Australia.
People who think that Aussie cricket team's behaviour is no different than others really have no concept of guaging behavior or lead a totally blinkered existance.
When my Canadian girlfriend who's never watched cricket starts commenting like 'why do those guys in yellow seem such jerks?', we know we have a problem.
But i wouldn't expect most Aussies to realize this.Some of the personal insulting gets too brazen from the Aussies and on top of it, they have the temerity to pretend its all fine off the field. Well, if i were an international player, anyone who's had drinks with me and befriended me that talks like that would end up wearing my bat for a helmet.

 

[honestbharani]

Yes the very same. Considering how biassed Aussie umpiring used to be at that time, particularly with racist overtones, its not surprising Gavaskar chose his actions against Australia.
People who think that Aussie cricket team's behaviour is no different than others really have no concept of guaging behavior or lead a totally blinkered existance.
When my Canadian girlfriend who's never watched cricket starts commenting like 'why do those guys in yellow seem such jerks?', we know we have a problem.
But i wouldn't expect most Aussies to realize this.

And its not like the Aussies never complained about the umpires..... McGrath mouthed off S.K. Bansal so much that they had to cut even the picture of him during Laxman's test in 2001. He was the final wicket.


And I think one more reason why ppl around the world dont like this Australian team that much may be because the match referees and umpires have definitely been more lenient with them than the others. Not sure if that is Ponting or anyone's fault, I tend to think that the refs and umps are simply taken in by the aura of this team. It is not the Aussies fault that the umps and refs are as strict as they should be when dealing with them, but I do think that watching them get away with stuff that other teams (esp. the subcontinental or Windies sides) wont generally get away with has shot up the dislike factor of the Aussie side, esp. in the subcontinent.

 

[Sanz]

No, we're saying that he's wrong to call the West Indians saintly in comparison.

Please correct me If I am wrong, Here is what Sunny Says :-

1. WI were Popular Winners unlike the Aussies - (IMO TRUE)

2. WI were feared by the ferocity of their attack and the aggression of their batsmen (IMO TRUE)

3. At the end of the Day they were not only admired but also liked ( IMO TRUE)

4.WI went about their jobs in a no fuss manner and hardly had anything to say to the opponents unlike the aussies who are almost always abusive and hardly humorous. (TRUE)

And I didn't have to read Sunny's analysis to know any of that. I watched a lot INDIA-WI cricket in 80s to know that there really is no comparison in this regard. WI of 80s are much more popular an d admired globally than this Aussie team can ever be.

 

[C_C]

but I do think that watching them get away with stuff that other teams (esp. the subcontinental or Windies sides) wont generally get away with has shot up the dislike factor of the Aussie side, esp. in the subcontinent.

Yeah. One thing i've never seen Australia as a side display is humility. This isnt just about jealousy of success - its that Australia has a genuine attitude problem when it comes to sports. You see similar comments about the Socceroos as well. But you sure don't see such impression about West Indies team of the 70s/80s or the Brazilian soccer team or the Giants. All these teams are just as successful as the current Aussie team, if not more but none of them are maligned as they would be if it were 'jealousy and pot shots'.

 

[Richard]

Please correct me If I am wrong, Here is what Sunny Says :-

1. WI were Popular Winners unlike the Aussies - (IMO TRUE)

2. WI were feared by the ferocity of their attack and the aggression of their batsmen (IMO TRUE)

3. At the end of the Day they were not only admired but also liked ( IMO TRUE)

4.WI went about their jobs in a no fuss manner and hardly had anything to say to the opponents unlike the aussies who are almost always abusive and hardly humorous. (TRUE)

And I didn't have to read Sunny's analysis to know any of that. I watched a lot INDIA-WI cricket in 80s to know that there really is no comparison in this regard. WI of 80s are much more popular an d admired globally than this Aussie team can ever be.

Just because you watched lots of Indo-WI cricket in the 1980s doesn't qualify you to judge. There were other teams than India and West Indies' behaviour of times in the '76-'86 period was disgraceful. I hightly doubt, for instance, that you watched the Sabina Park Test of 1976.

 

[Laurrz]

"but I do think that watching them get away with stuff that other teams (esp. the subcontinental or Windies sides) wont generally get away with has shot up the dislike factor of the Aussie side, esp. in the subcontinent."

r u serious? the Indians love us done they? Ever since Steve Waugh went there and did his stuff

they like Binger and Clarke too [blonde factor lol..well the girls] and from what i heard from Harsha Bogle they are erally well respected the Aussies in India

 

[Sanz]

I'm bemused as to why he felt the need to make these comments, and am suggesting that he's wrong to say that the Australians are much worse than several other teams currently doing the rounds, and wrong to say that they are much worse than several others teams from the past.

I also have to say that I really don't have a problem with 90% of what the Australian team does on and off the field, and don't really care if others, like Mr Gavaskar, do have a problem.

You are right about the 90% part. I dont have a problem with that, its the 10 % part which involves abusing, cursing and all that

And Aussies ged picked and noticed because they are the best team. Had they been the worst team, no one would have noticed and cared.

 

[Sanz]

Just because you watched lots of Indo-WI cricket in the 1980s doesn't qualify you to judge.

It does qualify me to form an opinion. I can judge them by what I saw and heard about the WI team. I guess sunny is doing exactly the same.

There were other teams than India and West Indies' behaviour of times in the '76-'86 period was disgraceful. I hightly doubt, for instance, that you watched the Sabina Park Test of 1976.

And no I have not watch Sabina Park test of 1976, neither did I claim to have watched it. Btw did you watch the Sabina Park test ? And IMO when it comes to on field behaviour WI are miles ahead of the Aussie team of 90s.

 

[Richard]

It depends. The situations such as that Sabina Park game, Old Trafford later that year, and Dunedin 1979\80 are about as low as you can sink on the field as far as I'm concerned.

Australia have been poor, too, but just because Gavaskar never had any problem with Holding, Richards et al (Tendulkar never had any problem with Warne, either - wonder what the similarity there is...) doesn't mean no-one did.

 

[Johnners]

How many teams keep yelling at umpires till they give the right decision?

Erm... all of them (i'm assuming you're talking about appealing here)

How many teams publicly remonstrate an umpire in the middle of the field for not giving the decision in their favour?

Erm... i seem to recall numerous captains doing this.

How many captains have said demeaning things to an umpire on the cricket field?

I'd say a number of them have, just that we havne't heard it as it hasn't been picked up by stump mike.

How many teams appeal for a hit wicket when one of their own players throws a bail off the batsman's stumps? How many teams indulge in personal sledging on the cricket field at every given opportunity?

Out of interest, when did the first event happen, can't say i recall it . As for the second, i think it would be fair to say the a number of teams indulge in personal sledging on the cricket field.

I think some people are missing the point here, yes we know that the Australian Cricket Team is not a bunch of angels with Halo's floating above their head, and you'd have to ignorant to think otherwise. However, afaic, you'd also have to be ignorant to think that they're the only team like it. As it has already been mentioned in this thread, imo a lot of the negative media towards the Australian team is only created because they are indeed the no.1 team in the world, and have been so dominant for an extended period of team.

I think you'd find that is say South Africa was the no.1 team, there would be just as much focus, bad media upon them, and it would be them Gavaksar would be directing his comments at.

 

[C_C]

However, afaic, you'd also have to be ignorant to think that they're the only team like it.

Do you understand degrees ?
Nobody's an angel out there but Aussie team is a few degrees worse than anyone else out there in terms of behaviour. As i said, why do you think Aussie team gets criticism in various different sports as well but not other equal or better teams in terms of record arn't in this regard ?

 

[Sanz]

It depends. The situations such as that Sabina Park game, Old Trafford later that year, and Dunedin 1979\80 are about as low as you can sink on the field as far as I'm concerned.

No they are not. Dunedin was a blatant act of denying a bowler wickets after wickets only because the umpire was heavily biased in favor of the home team. Many of us probably would have done the same. And I still dont know what was so wrong @ Sabina Park ?

Australia have been poor, too, but just because Gavaskar never had any problem with Holding, Richards et al (Tendulkar never had any problem with Warne, either - wonder what the similarity there is...) doesn't mean no-one did.

Did Gavaskar claim that ? He is offering an opinion based on his experience, period.

 

[Richard]

He's doing far more than that AFAICS - claiming they never did a thing.

Yes, there was provocation at Dunedin, but that doesn't change the fact that there were many, many better ways of making protests than what they did.

 

[Sanz]

He's doing far more than that AFAICS - claiming they never did a thing..

No he is not. I will repeat, Here is what Gavaskar is claiming :-

1. WI were Popular Winners unlike the Aussies - (IMO TRUE)

2. WI were feared by the ferocity of their attack and the aggression of their batsmen (IMO TRUE)

3. At the end of the Day they were not only admired but also liked ( IMO TRUE)

4.WI went about their jobs in a no fuss manner and hardly had anything to say to the opponents unlike the aussies who are almost always abusive and hardly humorous. (TRUE)

Do you disagree with any of that ?

 

[Sanz]

Yes, there was provocation at Dunedin, but that doesn't change the fact that there were many, many better ways of making protests than what they did.

How is that same as abusing a player from another team ? Dunedin was blatant act of cheating by the umpire and with no accountability. Holding's was clearly an act of frustration, whereas Aussie abuse is deliberate. But knowing you, I am not surprised that you draw a parellel between the two.

 

[Anil]

"When I faced Holding, I received four bouncers in an over and a beamer which Holding pretended had slipped from his hand....

there is nothing racist or abusive here, it is an observation of mostly fact and regarding the beamer, it is an observation which is very likely true...

To call a crowd 'a crowd in Jamaica is a misnomer. It should be called a mob. The way they shrieked and howled every time Holding bowled was positively horrible... All this proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that these people still belong to the jungles and forests instead of a civilised country".

however much he was riled by the crowd, those comments are quite shocking...! and the knowledgable west indian crowds actually hold gavaskar in very high regard for the way he battled their pace battery in the 70s and 80s....

i did read sunny days when i was a kid but don't remember these kind of comments, have to go back and re-read it...i can see where you are coming with the hypocrisy part....