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Should Michael Vaughan have walked?
- Thread starter Top_Cat
- Start date
Tim
Cricketer Of The Year
You're right Top_Cat, I seriously doubt Langer would have walked & its almost certain that Steve Waugh would have stayed there. Maybe the only Australian to walk would either be Adam Gilchrist or Matthew Hayden, but I think even those two would have had serious doubts.
Why walk & then find out it had touched the ground when you can stay and get the third umpires view?. Vaughan did the right thing & im disappointed that there have been certain comments made out of Australia that the third umpire is a waste of time because one dismissal didn't go their way.
Why walk & then find out it had touched the ground when you can stay and get the third umpires view?. Vaughan did the right thing & im disappointed that there have been certain comments made out of Australia that the third umpire is a waste of time because one dismissal didn't go their way.
full_length
U19 Vice-Captain
Wasn't he vindicated when Bichel claimed a catch that never was?
Top_Cat
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It's doubtful whether Bichel was seriously claiming it for one thing.
Regardless, it was pretty dumb of him to appeal like that. To me, Vaughan was out but he couldn't have been vindicated really because I don't think he actually did anything wrong anyway. It was probably a fair catch but there was sufficient doubt to rule it not-out. The Aussies and the media were in no position to be indignant about it because the Aussies have been on the good end of some fortuitous circumstances themselves.
What I guess I objected to was the media's demonisation of Vaughan. He didn't deserve that at all, especially since he went onto score a brilliant hundred. Plus, the usual brigade wanting to return to the 'good old days' (which never were, in my opinion) is sickening. Mike Coward writes something like that every year and it's just idiotic.
[Edited on 25/11/2002 by Top_Cat]
Regardless, it was pretty dumb of him to appeal like that. To me, Vaughan was out but he couldn't have been vindicated really because I don't think he actually did anything wrong anyway. It was probably a fair catch but there was sufficient doubt to rule it not-out. The Aussies and the media were in no position to be indignant about it because the Aussies have been on the good end of some fortuitous circumstances themselves.
What I guess I objected to was the media's demonisation of Vaughan. He didn't deserve that at all, especially since he went onto score a brilliant hundred. Plus, the usual brigade wanting to return to the 'good old days' (which never were, in my opinion) is sickening. Mike Coward writes something like that every year and it's just idiotic.
[Edited on 25/11/2002 by Top_Cat]
full_length
U19 Vice-Captain
I guess I should read your article 
I have pretty much the same view of the situation.
On that topic you raised:
There have been a few players recently who made a point that the 70s era players were just as reluctant walkers as the ones today. I forget who exactly. Maybe you remember? I think Dravid was definitely one.
Steve Waugh should have said something. It's very much in his interest
These nostaligia stricken people (yeah it's a disease in these cases) should actually be gifted a few videos methinks. It's probably a good thing that everyone seems to remember only the good things, but it makes life tough for the present generations!
I have pretty much the same view of the situation.
On that topic you raised:
There have been a few players recently who made a point that the 70s era players were just as reluctant walkers as the ones today. I forget who exactly. Maybe you remember? I think Dravid was definitely one.
Steve Waugh should have said something. It's very much in his interest
These nostaligia stricken people (yeah it's a disease in these cases) should actually be gifted a few videos methinks. It's probably a good thing that everyone seems to remember only the good things, but it makes life tough for the present generations!
full_length
U19 Vice-Captain
Re: Border's charity walk recently.. someone (an Aussie) commented "This is the only time you'll see an Aussie walk"
full_length
U19 Vice-Captain
OK on the morals debate:
Is it a worse crime to claim a catch that never was than to not walk when you know you're out?
Is it a worse crime to claim a catch that never was than to not walk when you know you're out?
assuming that the only doubt about the legality of the catch is that it carried, then there is no difference in which offence is worse......
but it is such a complex issue that you can not blame players for either appealing or for not walking......except for those times of 'blatant' / excessive appeals etc.....bearing in mind that just because a player appeals / stands their ground does not mean that they think they have got it - they can be unsure of any number of things & on a close call it is better to wait for the umpire's decision.
umpires can be likened to the role of judges in a court of law - their function is to preside over points of law and the determination of 'fact', not necessarily if it is right / wrong (a function for the jury - commentators & spectators in sport). The umpires perform a similar role. If a player appeals / stands his ground he is in effect asking the umpire for a ruling - the umpire determines the 'fact' based upon the evidence, the outcome of which may not be right or wrong - but just read about it in the morning papers!!!!
Human error will always be a part of the game while humans are involved in any decision process. Players & spectators alike should have the grace to accept the good with the bad and get on with it. No individual (player or umpire) should become the target of any villification as the result of any such decision - except maybe for those instances where they failed to carryour their functions.
I think I have already mentioned sometime ago how 2 umpires 'missed' a spectacular diving outfield catch in a ODI because neither thought the player would get to it and they were both looking for the batsmen running 1 short!!!! Funny - I think the fielder on that occaision was none other than Martin Sneddon - involved in some more controversy recently!!!!
If the team is good enough a single decision should not effect the outcome in a Test - maybe for ODI's & that can be unfortunate, but should not affect the series. It's like the weather - stops you one series - saves you the next, but it evens out over time.
but it is such a complex issue that you can not blame players for either appealing or for not walking......except for those times of 'blatant' / excessive appeals etc.....bearing in mind that just because a player appeals / stands their ground does not mean that they think they have got it - they can be unsure of any number of things & on a close call it is better to wait for the umpire's decision.
umpires can be likened to the role of judges in a court of law - their function is to preside over points of law and the determination of 'fact', not necessarily if it is right / wrong (a function for the jury - commentators & spectators in sport). The umpires perform a similar role. If a player appeals / stands his ground he is in effect asking the umpire for a ruling - the umpire determines the 'fact' based upon the evidence, the outcome of which may not be right or wrong - but just read about it in the morning papers!!!!
Human error will always be a part of the game while humans are involved in any decision process. Players & spectators alike should have the grace to accept the good with the bad and get on with it. No individual (player or umpire) should become the target of any villification as the result of any such decision - except maybe for those instances where they failed to carryour their functions.
I think I have already mentioned sometime ago how 2 umpires 'missed' a spectacular diving outfield catch in a ODI because neither thought the player would get to it and they were both looking for the batsmen running 1 short!!!! Funny - I think the fielder on that occaision was none other than Martin Sneddon - involved in some more controversy recently!!!!
If the team is good enough a single decision should not effect the outcome in a Test - maybe for ODI's & that can be unfortunate, but should not affect the series. It's like the weather - stops you one series - saves you the next, but it evens out over time.
Rik
Cricketer Of The Year
Langer can moan for ever about it being out and it being against the spirit of the game but he knows that he wouldn't have walked if Vaughan had taken that catch. Maybe if such a thing happens when Langer is batting England can have their own go at him 
[Edited on 25/11/2002 by Rik]
[Edited on 25/11/2002 by Rik]
full_length
U19 Vice-Captain
Maybe it's an opportune moment to remind everyone of the Vaughan handled the ball dismissal where he ended up whining big time
Anil
Hall of Fame Member
Oh yes, both he and that champion whiner Hussain did.Originally posted by Rik
I don't remember him whining about it...Originally posted by full_length
Maybe it's an opportune moment to remind everyone of the Vaughan handled the ball dismissal where he ended up whining big time
I think wrong umpiring desicions are part of the game. If everyone walked when they were out alot of matchs would go the oppisite way of what they have. I just see it as part of the game.
Last year I walked when the umpire had given me not out for a caught behind. I was on 93 and we lost the game by 6 runs. At the end of the game my team was angry at me but it was only school cricket and I felt good about what I did.. It this happened again today I probabaly would not walk as I hate letting my team down..
Last year I walked when the umpire had given me not out for a caught behind. I was on 93 and we lost the game by 6 runs. At the end of the game my team was angry at me but it was only school cricket and I felt good about what I did.. It this happened again today I probabaly would not walk as I hate letting my team down..
Rik
Cricketer Of The Year
Oh and of course Ganguly's never wined? Or Steve Waugh? Hussain is branded as a winer but in truth he rarely does. Anyway I can't remember any of them wining about it, Vaughan was out, it was as simple as that in that instance.Originally posted by anilramavarma
Oh yes, both he and that champion whiner Hussain did.Originally posted by Rik
I don't remember him whining about it...Originally posted by full_length
Maybe it's an opportune moment to remind everyone of the Vaughan handled the ball dismissal where he ended up whining big time
Also I feel it's time to present the award for bigest Recent Winger to...Justin Langer who just won't stop moaning about that catch...
[Edited on 25/11/2002 by Rik]
Rik
Cricketer Of The Year
Talking of bad desisions, in my game last weekend I was given out stumped by the Square-Leg Umpire. Ok you might say, he was out but I had actually put my foot in then turned around and watched the keeper take the bails off...a second after I had turned round and even my entire team shouted "IN"!!! Then the keeper and bowler who are both brothers kept telling me I was out and my team said "Unlucky, you were well in". I had to go to the other end and lost 5 runs off my score (indoor cricket rules) and when we crossed the next ball I took guard and walloped the ball back flat-batted flat 6 and hit it so hard I fell over. I was really really annoyed! I hit the roof 8 times (really small hall) which counted as dead balls and therefor no run. I bowled the 1st delivery (with my Fastish Left Armer stuff and Left Arm Spin mixed up) of the match and took a wicket with a Yorker, got another in the over with my Top-Spinner and then took one in the last over of the innings with a Yorker (max 3 overs each bowler, 16 per innings, 4 per pair) and hit my 1st ball for 4...not a bad game although we lost by 17 runs 
...and gave away 34 extras...
Still...what a game!
...and gave away 34 extras...Still...what a game!
