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Thread: Should Michael Vaughan have walked?

  1. #1
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    Should Michael Vaughan have walked?

    Hi all.

    If you've read my article at the front of the site, you'd have a pretty good idea of what I thought of the Michael Vaughan/Justin Langer issue.

    So what does everyone else think?
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  2. #2
    Tim
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    You're right Top_Cat, I seriously doubt Langer would have walked & its almost certain that Steve Waugh would have stayed there. Maybe the only Australian to walk would either be Adam Gilchrist or Matthew Hayden, but I think even those two would have had serious doubts.

    Why walk & then find out it had touched the ground when you can stay and get the third umpires view?. Vaughan did the right thing & im disappointed that there have been certain comments made out of Australia that the third umpire is a waste of time because one dismissal didn't go their way.

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    Wasn't he vindicated when Bichel claimed a catch that never was?
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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    It's doubtful whether Bichel was seriously claiming it for one thing.

    Regardless, it was pretty dumb of him to appeal like that. To me, Vaughan was out but he couldn't have been vindicated really because I don't think he actually did anything wrong anyway. It was probably a fair catch but there was sufficient doubt to rule it not-out. The Aussies and the media were in no position to be indignant about it because the Aussies have been on the good end of some fortuitous circumstances themselves.

    What I guess I objected to was the media's demonisation of Vaughan. He didn't deserve that at all, especially since he went onto score a brilliant hundred. Plus, the usual brigade wanting to return to the 'good old days' (which never were, in my opinion) is sickening. Mike Coward writes something like that every year and it's just idiotic.

    [Edited on 25/11/2002 by Top_Cat]


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    I guess I should read your article

    I have pretty much the same view of the situation.

    On that topic you raised:
    There have been a few players recently who made a point that the 70s era players were just as reluctant walkers as the ones today. I forget who exactly. Maybe you remember? I think Dravid was definitely one.
    Steve Waugh should have said something. It's very much in his interest


    These nostaligia stricken people (yeah it's a disease in these cases) should actually be gifted a few videos methinks. It's probably a good thing that everyone seems to remember only the good things, but it makes life tough for the present generations!

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    Re: Border's charity walk recently.. someone (an Aussie) commented "This is the only time you'll see an Aussie walk"


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    OK on the morals debate:

    Is it a worse crime to claim a catch that never was than to not walk when you know you're out?

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    assuming that the only doubt about the legality of the catch is that it carried, then there is no difference in which offence is worse......

    but it is such a complex issue that you can not blame players for either appealing or for not walking......except for those times of 'blatant' / excessive appeals etc.....bearing in mind that just because a player appeals / stands their ground does not mean that they think they have got it - they can be unsure of any number of things & on a close call it is better to wait for the umpire's decision.

    umpires can be likened to the role of judges in a court of law - their function is to preside over points of law and the determination of 'fact', not necessarily if it is right / wrong (a function for the jury - commentators & spectators in sport). The umpires perform a similar role. If a player appeals / stands his ground he is in effect asking the umpire for a ruling - the umpire determines the 'fact' based upon the evidence, the outcome of which may not be right or wrong - but just read about it in the morning papers!!!!

    Human error will always be a part of the game while humans are involved in any decision process. Players & spectators alike should have the grace to accept the good with the bad and get on with it. No individual (player or umpire) should become the target of any villification as the result of any such decision - except maybe for those instances where they failed to carryour their functions.

    I think I have already mentioned sometime ago how 2 umpires 'missed' a spectacular diving outfield catch in a ODI because neither thought the player would get to it and they were both looking for the batsmen running 1 short!!!! Funny - I think the fielder on that occaision was none other than Martin Sneddon - involved in some more controversy recently!!!!

    If the team is good enough a single decision should not effect the outcome in a Test - maybe for ODI's & that can be unfortunate, but should not affect the series. It's like the weather - stops you one series - saves you the next, but it evens out over time.


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    I remember last year Mark Boucher took a catch of Adam Gilchrist and it was reffered to the 3rd Umpire
    Even know Gilchrist was prepared to walk on Bouchers word the umpires would not let him.


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    Rik
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    Langer can moan for ever about it being out and it being against the spirit of the game but he knows that he wouldn't have walked if Vaughan had taken that catch. Maybe if such a thing happens when Langer is batting England can have their own go at him

    [Edited on 25/11/2002 by Rik]
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    Maybe it's an opportune moment to remind everyone of the Vaughan handled the ball dismissal where he ended up whining big time

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    Rik
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    Originally posted by full_length
    Maybe it's an opportune moment to remind everyone of the Vaughan handled the ball dismissal where he ended up whining big time
    I don't remember him whining about it...

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    Originally posted by Rik
    Originally posted by full_length
    Maybe it's an opportune moment to remind everyone of the Vaughan handled the ball dismissal where he ended up whining big time
    I don't remember him whining about it...
    Oh yes, both he and that champion whiner Hussain did.
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    I think wrong umpiring desicions are part of the game. If everyone walked when they were out alot of matchs would go the oppisite way of what they have. I just see it as part of the game.

    Last year I walked when the umpire had given me not out for a caught behind. I was on 93 and we lost the game by 6 runs. At the end of the game my team was angry at me but it was only school cricket and I felt good about what I did.. It this happened again today I probabaly would not walk as I hate letting my team down..

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    Cricketer Of The Year Anil's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Tamara
    I think wrong umpiring desicions are part of the game. If everyone walked when they were out alot of matchs would go the oppisite way of what they have. I just see it as part of the game.

    Last year I walked when the umpire had given me not out for a caught behind. I was on 93 and we lost the game by 6 runs. At the end of the game my team was angry at me but it was only school cricket and I felt good about what I did.. It this happened again today I probabaly would not walk as I hate letting my team down..
    Batsmen get a lot of bum decisions in their career, so these occasions sort of even things out. No batsman should walk unless ordered to by the umpire.

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