What would you rather have??

[Bouncer]

Please Only reply if you have to say anything about these 2 options,

This thread is not to discus PCB's past decisions, stupidity


Pak announcing both Shaoib and Asif in WC squad and taking a chance of them getting caught in the ICC's random testing, and getting banned for life(very likely)

or

Pak announcing that Both are unfit to be part of WC, Not taking them to WC, instead waiting as long as it takes for their bodies to get purified and them include in any Pak's squad.

I wouldnt be surprise if PCB goes with 2nd option and not pick them up for WC and then making sure that both contine to play for Pak in future. If it was only shoiab then i would have cared less and would have wanted him to be pickedup for WC(coz he atbest have 2 seasons in him) but Asif seems like only great aspect for Pakistan Bowling line up in near future(Gul is Injury prone, but i am not trying to make him look likaa lesser bowler.) and risking asif by playing him in WC and then quite possibly losing him forever, seems likaa risk PCB wouldnt take.

 

[open365]

I think it would be better for cricket if they took the tests, were found positive, then took the consequences for their actions.

However, if i were the PCB i'd only take them if they were 100% sure they would not test positive at the WC.

 

[Jungle Jumbo]

Erm, they have both been picked for the World Cup and after what went on recently, I don't think any Pakistani player will get found for drug abuse. Plus they're going to test every player before they leave anyway.

 

[Richard]

I think it would be better for cricket if they took the tests, were found positive, then took the consequences for their actions.

You know for certain that they deliberately took performance-enhancing steroids, do you?

 

[open365]

You know for certain that they deliberately took performance-enhancing steroids, do you?

Well seeing as their own country convicted them of it then yes, i'm quite certain they did, and that they did not receive the adequate punishment for the crime commited.

 

[Richard]

Because someone convicted you of something automatically means you are guilty?

And I haven't read the judgement document but I'm not even certain the conviction was of deliberately taking steroids.

 

[open365]

Because someone convicted you of something automatically means you are guilty?

And I haven't read the judgement document but I'm not even certain the conviction was of deliberately taking steroids.

They were guilty of having nandralone in their body's at excessive levels, which last time i checked was something that warranted more than a few games ban which is what they effectively got.

Proving whether someone deliberately took performancing enhancing drugs beyond all reasonable doubt is damn near impossible.

Whether they took them on purpose or not, they still did not recieve the correct punishment as they would have received if the tests were conducted by the ICC.

 

[Natman20]

As a coach I would have faith in my players to have not taken more drugs and therefore take them to the world cup. You would think they would have learnt from their mistakes and therefore their punishment as well. I would also make sure players were on standby to back them up but not actually say that openly in front of Asif or Acktar. If they are found to have drugs in their system it should be instant dismissal without any opportunity to play international cricket ever again.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I think, by their own admission, they deliberately ingested what turned out to be steroids, their defence rested on the fact they were unaware that the tablets their fitness adviser/guru/pusher gave them were steroids.

Personally I don't see their cognizance of what they were taking as having any bearing on what their punishment should’ve been. It's their body & their livelihood.

 

[open365]

Can i just clarify what the situation is here.

I was under the assumption that Asif and Akthar might test positive at the WC because they might still have excessive amounts of nandrelone left from when they were caught by the PCB but that if they got caught by the ICC they could acctualy be punished.

Is that wrong?

 

[Richard]

They were guilty of having nandralone in their body's at excessive levels, which last time i checked was something that warranted more than a few games ban which is what they effectively got.

Proving whether someone deliberately took performancing enhancing drugs beyond all reasonable doubt is damn near impossible.

Whether they took them on purpose or not, they still did not recieve the correct punishment as they would have received if the tests were conducted by the ICC.

And I personally believe the notion that you have to be 100% responsible for what enters your body to be 100% ludicrous. Those who purvey such an idea (WADA et al) are living in cloud-****oo-land. Contamination, especially of supplements, is a fact of life in Britain, never mind in Pakistan. I've recently been diagnosed with something that's caused by steroids, steroids which I had no idea whatsoever I was ingesting because I was innocently taking creatine, and one tin happened to be contaminated. Only in a small amount, but more than enough.

And I only take the stuff 4 times a week max, and that's all I take; Heaven alone knows how many other players have been innocently taking steroids. I guess we might just find-out soon.

 

[Richard]

Can i just clarify what the situation is here.

I was under the assumption that Asif and Akthar might test positive at the WC because they might still have excessive amounts of nandrelone left from when they were caught by the PCB but that if they got caught by the ICC they could acctualy be punished.

Is that wrong?

That's what seems to be the worry.

 

[Richard]

I think, by their own admission, they deliberately ingested what turned out to be steroids, their defence rested on the fact they were unaware that the tablets their fitness adviser/guru/pusher gave them were steroids.

I don't think so. I think the claim was that supplements recommended by knowledgeable fitness gurus were contaminated.

And given a survey conducted which showed such a thing to be incredibly common (5% of all supplements contain some sort of contamination IIRR) I don't find that remotely inconceivable.

 

[open365]

And I personally believe the notion that you have to be 100% responsible for what enters your body to be 100% ludicrous. Those who purvey such an idea (WADA et al) are living in cloud-****oo-land. Contamination, especially of supplements, is a fact of life in Britain, never mind in Pakistan. I've recently been diagnosed with something that's caused by steroids, steroids which I had no idea whatsoever I was ingesting because I was innocently taking creatine, and one tin happened to be contaminated. Only in a small amount, but more than enough.

And I only take the stuff 4 times a week max, and that's all I take; Heaven alone knows how many other players have been innocently taking steroids. I guess we might just find-out soon.

From what i read of the report, all players were given a list of supplements they were allowed to take, Asif and Akthar ingested a drug that was not on that list, that they got somewhere in London i think.

 

[Richard]

Are we told whether they consulted anyone, or what that supplement they took in London was?

 

[open365]

Are we told whether they consulted anyone, or what that supplement they took in London was?

We are told what it is, though i can't remember what it's called.

I think they got it from a personal fitness trainer, though don't quote me on that.

 

[Richard]

Personal somethingorother, it certainly was.

And I find it inconceivable that such people don't know what substances (especially very well-known ones like Nandrolone) are illegal and what supplements are supposed to contain them and what aren't.

Therefore contamination is the logical conclusion I come to.

 

[open365]

Personal somethingorother, it certainly was.

And I find it inconceivable that such people don't know what substances (especially very well-known ones like Nandrolone) are illegal and what supplements are supposed to contain them and what aren't.

Therefore contamination is the logical conclusion I come to.

Seeing as you know less specific in the case than i do, you'll forgive me for not taking any notice of your conclusion.

 

[Richard]

What is it that you know that I don't that is so vital, then?

 

[BoyBrumby]

I don't think so. I think the claim was that supplements recommended by knowledgeable fitness gurus were contaminated.

And given a survey conducted which showed such a thing to be incredibly common (5% of all supplements contain some sort of contamination IIRR) I don't find that remotely inconceivable.

Isn't that what I just said? They were deliberately taking something that they claim to be unaware was nandrolone.

& like I said the fact they were unaware they were taking them shouldn't matter. Any system that allows athletes off the hook because they claim to have unwittingly taken something is, to all intents and purposes, unenforceable. It'd be too open to abuse by the unscrupulous.