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Thread: The Non-Spamming Thread on the announcement of the greatest Aussie ODI team

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    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    The Non-Spamming Thread on the announcement of the greatest Aussie ODI team

    Jack asked for it - Cricket Australia will annouce the greatest Australia ODI team drawn from the 163 players to have pulled on the pyjamas for Oz on 27 Feb, in the lead up to the WC.

    As a PR gimmick a 30 strong "squad" was announced today, from which the team will be drawn. They are:
    1. Terry Alderman
    2. Michael Bevan
    3. David Boon
    4. Allan Border
    5. Greg Chappell
    6. Ian Chappell
    7. Simon Davis
    8. Adam Gilchrist
    9. Jason Gillespie
    10. Gary Gilmour
    11. Matthew Hayden
    12. Michael Hussey
    13. Dean Jones
    14. Brett Lee
    15. Darren Lehmann
    16. Dennis Lillee
    17. Damien Martyn
    18. Greg Matthews
    19. Craig McDermott
    20. Glenn McGrath
    21. Tom Moody
    22. Simon O'Donnell
    23. Ricky Ponting
    24. Bruce Reid
    25. Paul Reiffel
    26. Andrew Symonds
    27. Doug Walters
    28. Shane Warne
    29. Mark Waugh
    30. Steve Waugh

    If I was choosing the XI, I'd have
    Gilchrist
    Mark Waugh
    Ponting
    Jones
    Symonds
    Bevan
    Hussey
    Warne
    Lee
    Lillee
    McGrath

    Can't believe I can't find room in the team for Steve Waugh, but Symonds hitting ability, and genius in the field just has him shading Steve IMO. Tugga is definitely 12th man/supersub however. Probably a bit biased towards modern times, but I think the way ODIs were played in Chappelli and Walters day is so different from today's game that its hard to include them. Lillee gets in because his record is decent, and because there isn't really another bowler in the list who I think makes an ironclad claim for that spot.

    Deplore the absence of Michael Slater and Mick Lewis from the squad however, tbh
    Last edited by Matt79; 22-02-2007 at 07:12 AM.
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    International Coach howardj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post
    If I was choosing the XI, I'd have
    Gilchrist
    Mark Waugh
    Ponting
    Jones
    Symonds
    Bevan
    Hussey
    Warne
    Lee
    Lillee
    McGrath

    Can't believe I can't find room in the team for Steve Waugh, but Symonds hitting ability, and genius in the field just has him shading Steve IMO. Tugga is definitely 12th man/supersub however. Probably a bit biased towards modern times, but I think the way ODIs were played in Chappelli and Walters day is so different from today's game that its had to include them. Lillee gets in because his record is decent, and because there isn't really another bowler in the list who I think makes an ironclad claim for that spot.

    Deplore the absence of Michael Slater and Mick Lewis from the squad however, tbh
    Geez, hard to argue with your XI, to be honest.

    Good work.
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    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Hayden should be there in the ODI team, averages almost as much as Ponting. He started off slow in the format, but over the past five years or so, he has been fantastic.
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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Honestly, how stupid are people to mention names like Gilmour, Alderman, Chappell and Lillee in the same breath as Gilchrist and Gillespie?

    Any fool could see that the game is not the same and should not be treated as such to what it was in the 1970s and 1980s.
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    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    The list was based on the votes of all the players who have received one day caps - I'd guess there'll be a large proportion who fall into the "rate your contemporaries above any recent players" trap...

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    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    Mark Waugh was a very good opener and a good partner for Gilly, plus a brilliant fielder and a handy bowler (mainly spin, but sometimes some medium pace) so he adds a bit more balance to the team than Hayden, but yeah, Hayden would be the next choice to partner Gilchrist.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post
    The list was based on the votes of all the players who have received one day caps - I'd guess there'll be a large proportion who fall into the "rate your contemporaries above any recent players" trap...
    That's certainly not my "trap" at all, if anything I'm the very opposite.

    However, to deny that the ODIs in the 70s and 80s were different - not superior, not inferior - to ODIs of the 90s and 2000s is IMO pretty stupid. You need a separate vote for each era.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post
    Mark Waugh was a very good opener and a good partner for Gilly, plus a brilliant fielder and a handy bowler (mainly spin, but sometimes some medium pace) so he adds a bit more balance to the team than Hayden, but yeah, Hayden would be the next choice to partner Gilchrist.
    IMO M Waugh >>>>> Hayden in ODIs. Purely as a batsman regardless of bowling and fielding.

    Similarly, Slats >>>>> Hayden in Tests.

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    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    IMO M Waugh >>>>> Hayden in ODIs. Purely as a batsman regardless of bowling and fielding.

    Similarly, Slats >>>>> Hayden in Tests.
    It's debatable for M Waugh though I probably agree with you. Not so in Tests. Since 2000, after Ponting, Hayden has been the best batsman for Australia along with Gilly.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Since 2001\02 more like.

    Since - not coincidentally - bowling stocks went bare and pitches by-and-large became incredibly flat.

    Slater was one of a tiny number of openers who succeeded by playing shots against the new-ball against broadly good attacks (Anwar and Fredericks are two others who immidiately spring to mind). Hayden has not, he's succeeded by being a flat-track bully in the most general sense of the word. As have quite a few others in the post-2001 era.

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    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Since 2001\02 more like.

    Since - not coincidentally - bowling stocks went bare and pitches by-and-large became incredibly flat.
    You could say that about every player since 2001, including Ponting, Gilchrist, etc. Because if you say Hayden is a flat track bully, then surely Ponting, Gilchrist, Dravid, etc are all the same way.

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    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    IMO M Waugh >>>>> Hayden in ODIs. Purely as a batsman regardless of bowling and fielding.

    Similarly, Slats >>>>> Hayden in Tests.
    Mark Waugh is certainly better than Hayden in ODIs, and pretty comfortably as well IMO.

    Slater is not better than Hayden in tests. Slater was a good test opener, but that's it.

    Anyway, the XI mentioned above is more or less perfect IMO. Could be a case for Steve Waugh because of his bowling, but Symonds and Mark can cover 10 overs, you'd imagine. And really, the only batsman spot that isn't 100% settled is Hussey's, and that's purely because he hasn't played that long. I don't think you can really leave him out. If there's no Hussey, you could probably slot Steve in at 6.
    Last edited by FaaipDeOiad; 22-02-2007 at 08:28 AM.
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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post
    You could say that about every player since 2001, including Ponting, Gilchrist, etc. Because if you say Hayden is a flat track bully, then surely Ponting, Gilchrist, Dravid, etc are all the same way.
    Ponting, Gilchrist and Dravid are certainly not flat-track-bullies - Gilchrist is not a top-order batsman, so a glaring weakness against quality seam (which he's hardly exhibited in the same manner as Hayden anyway) is not so significant.

    Ponting and Dravid I certainly don't rate anywhere near as high as some do. Dravid, however, still averaged over 50 in the 1990s and 2000, so he's still a fantastic player. Ponting, though, is nothing more than a very good player. I find it totally inconceivable that he'd have averaged over 70 accross 5-and-a-half years had bowling-attacks not been so poor for most of that time. Sure, he'd probably have averaged more than the 40 he averaged in his first 5-and-a-half years, but I think to suggest the increase would have been so steep against better bowling is ludicrous.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FaaipDeOiad View Post
    Mark Waugh is certainly better than Hayden in ODIs, and pretty comfortably as well IMO.

    Slater is not better than Hayden in tests. Slater was a good test opener, but that's it.
    And Hayden's a flat-track bully. That's it.

    Slater, on the other hand, actually played shots against the new-ball against good Test-match attacks and succeeded, something very few have done.

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    [QUOTE=Richard;109082

    Ponting and Dravid I certainly don't rate anywhere near as high as some do. .[/QUOTE]

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