• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

What's wrong in South Africa?

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Two points. Should all grounds be standardised (probably not - on the big Aussie grounds they would need to bring the ropes in) - and is there a minimum size for boundaries like in football where there is a minimum width the pitch can be for international matches? And if there isn't a minimum should they be? Also, is it my imagination, or do floodlights make more of a difference in SA than other countries? Last year Australia and India got bowled out for double figures under lights replying to good SA scores while in the current CB series NZ nearly chased over 300 under lights. Are SA's lights poorer than Australia's just like their team? (When they are on that is) - last night's blackout was not the first -it happened on an England tour too - but it didn't stop us winning that match as Pakistan did last night.
When people say "tough to bat under lights", they don't actually mean the lights in the ground makes the ball swing more. They mean at night time, the conditions aid swing bowling, and its thus harder to bat in.

Its like in India, where sometimes people say "Its going to be hard to bowl under lights today", they are generally referring to the dew. The lights itself have little to do with it.
 

Dick Rockett

International Vice-Captain
To those who are interested, I've edited my original post with the ground measurements to include the major arenas in Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, the West Indies, Pakistan, India, and Sri Lanka.
 

LA ICE-E

State Captain
Two points. Should all grounds be standardised (probably not - on the big Aussie grounds they would need to bring the ropes in) - and is there a minimum size for boundaries like in football where there is a minimum width the pitch can be for international matches? And if there isn't a minimum should they be? Also, is it my imagination, or do floodlights make more of a difference in SA than other countries? Last year Australia and India got bowled out for double figures under lights replying to good SA scores while in the current CB series NZ nearly chased over 300 under lights. Are SA's lights poorer than Australia's just like their team? (When they are on that is) - last night's blackout was not the first -it happened on an England tour too - but it didn't stop us winning that match as Pakistan did last night.
yeah there is a minimum "size" for boundaries. they just need to make the requirement bit bigger for odi and test
 

Matt79

Global Moderator
Well, maybe a bit more practical than resizing the grounds, they should reduce the permitted weights of bats. If the bats were less powerful, then it would certainly even the contest between bat and ball somewhat. Clubs like Hayden's are getting ridiculous...
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
No lawful way to bring in such restrictions.

You might as well try and stop TV showing replays of contentuous decisions.
 

Matt79

Global Moderator
No lawful way to bring in such restrictions.

You might as well try and stop TV showing replays of contentuous decisions.
You mean there's no lawful way of limiting the weights of bats? Find that a strange comment when they regulate the dimensions of the bat and whether you can have stickers on the back of the bat.
 

Matt79

Global Moderator
I don't see why. The technology that goes into bats has indisputably made them much more powerful than they used to be. this has shifted the balance of power in the game. No, you can't sensibly legislate for every kind of technology or design feature, but you can tighten the limits within which these things can be applied. They do it in Formula One every year.

I don't see how it would be too difficult to police, or unacceptable to enforce - as I mentioned there are precedents with Lillee's aluminium bat and Ponting's graphite sticker.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
You mean there's no lawful way of limiting the weights of bats? Find that a strange comment when they regulate the dimensions of the bat and whether you can have stickers on the back of the bat.
Length, width, breadth is completely different to density.

And the stickers are completely different again. Compared to some sports, indeed, they're on the ridiculous side.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I don't see why. The technology that goes into bats has indisputably made them much more powerful than they used to be. this has shifted the balance of power in the game.
I don't believe that. We've had heavier bats for at least the last decade, probably since the mid-1980s - the game's only become more batsman-friendly since 2000, 2001 sort of time. That's to do with ball-manufacturing and pitch-preparation, not the power of bats.
 

Matt79

Global Moderator
I don't believe that. We've had heavier bats for at least the last decade, probably since the mid-1980s - the game's only become more batsman-friendly since 2000, 2001 sort of time. That's to do with ball-manufacturing and pitch-preparation, not the power of bats.
Are you seriously contending that bats haven't become more powerful - which is not only a function of their weight - in the last five years? It's been things like carbon fibre handles so more of the weight can be in the meat of the bat and less compressed wood that has more spring. You see so many BIG sixes these days, as well as chips with no follow through going for six and top-edges going for six.

The other factors you list played big big roles. Pitch preparation should be looked at, but adjusting bat specifications is about restoring the status quo. To turn around LA ICE-E's comment, the bowlers aren't allowed to have heavier balls, or to 'improve' the surface of the ball, why do batsmen get to have continually improving equipment? Obviously that's going to slant the match.
 

Matt79

Global Moderator
Length, width, breadth is completely different to density.

And the stickers are completely different again. Compared to some sports, indeed, they're on the ridiculous side.
You can measure 'density', or weight to put it more simply, with a set of scales like you'd see in any fruit and veg shop. How long would that take?

People could pull shenigans in terms of substituting the bats they had weighed before the game with other heavier bats when they're out in the middle, but it would seriously take one work experience kid and a set of $10 scales to stop each batsman on his way back into the pavillion after dismissal and weigh their bat.

Its not a panacea but it would go some way to redressing the balance a bit.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Are you seriously contending that bats haven't become more powerful - which is not only a function of their weight - in the last five years? It's been things like carbon fibre handles so more of the weight can be in the meat of the bat and less compressed wood that has more spring. You see so many BIG sixes these days, as well as chips with no follow through going for six and top-edges going for six.
Where on Earth did I say bats haven't become more powerful? Obviously they have - but it was quite some time ago now, early 1990s at the latest, so hasn't really had much of an effect. Nor should it. A six is worth the same whether it just clears the rope or goes 15 rows back. One area it does make a difference, of course, is that mi****s carry more readily to deep-fielders. Yes, it does mean a few more things go for six that in the 1970s might have been fours, but I don't really think that makes as big a difference as it's often assumed to.

Top-edges, meanwhile, have always flown - that's almost solely down to bat-speed, not weight, as it's only a glancing blow.
The other factors you list played big big roles. Pitch preparation should be looked at, but adjusting bat specifications is about restoring the status quo. To turn around LA ICE-E's comment, the bowlers aren't allowed to have heavier balls, or to 'improve' the surface of the ball, why do batsmen get to have continually improving equipment? Obviously that's going to slant the match.
A heavier ball would certainly be something interesting to look at. Obviously, though, that might make it swing less.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
You can measure 'density', or weight to put it more simply, with a set of scales like you'd see in any fruit and veg shop. How long would that take?

People could pull shenigans in terms of substituting the bats they had weighed before the game with other heavier bats when they're out in the middle, but it would seriously take one work experience kid and a set of $10 scales to stop each batsman on his way back into the pavillion after dismissal and weigh their bat.

Its not a panacea but it would go some way to redressing the balance a bit.
It's not that it'd be unenforcable - I don't see how a case could be made for such a thing being a fair ruling. The ability to lift a heavy bat has always been one of the things that's pervaded cricket. Standardisation on width, depth and breadth came centuries ago. You'd be introducing new limits govorning what's been accepted practice for as long as anyone can remember.
 

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
Where on Earth did I say bats haven't become more powerful? Obviously they have - but it was quite some time ago now, early 1990s at the latest, so hasn't really had much of an effect. Nor should it.
Richard, batmaking technology has developed dramatically over the past 5 years. Maybe even less.

A bat bought in the late 1990s is very different to a modern bat.

In terms of compression and the thickness of the edges as well as other smaller developments the modern bats are lightyears ahead of the ones even 10 years ago.

I havent bought a bat in years but Im surrounded by new ones daily and when you compare them to what I have used they are very different. They are so much thicker and pick up lighter. Its almost like cricket bat making has adopted an alien material.

Take for example the bat Im thinking of buying (Im not playing much but I get good deals and I really liked it). The MRF Slash. Its a specialist OD (20/20) bat and has an edge as thick as my forearm (and Im not a small boy :) ) and picks up so easy.

Bats like these didnt exist even 5 years ago.
 
Last edited:

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I'm no batsman so I don't know of any changes in recent times.

But I assure you - bats in the early 1990s did have more power than those used earlier. Ashley Mallett wrote an article in Wisden 1996 mentioning how the excuse about heavy bats had been being used for years as to why spinners were less effective than they used to be.

They may have continued to develop, though.
 

Top