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Thread: Odd Career charts

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    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Odd Career charts

    I was looking through stats of various players (no, I have nothing better to do), and I came upon Hadlee.

    I put his stats into excel and came up with a graph:



    This is a really odd chart, because his cumulative average just kept on getting lower and lower as he moved into his thirties (he was 39 when he retired) and for a fast bowler, that astounds me.

    Anyone have any other odd players like that?
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    International Vice-Captain Jungle Jumbo's Avatar
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    More likely than not he played more and more ODI cricket outside of the subcontinent as he got older.

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    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle Jumbo View Post
    More likely than not he played more and more ODI cricket outside of the subcontinent as he got older.
    This is his test cricket. His ODI chart stays in the low twenties pretty much since 1983-1990.

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    International Vice-Captain Jungle Jumbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post
    This is his test cricket. His ODI chart stays in the low twenties pretty much since 1983-1990.
    Sorry, misread title as 'ODI Career Charts'.


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    Cricket Web Staff Member archie mac's Avatar
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    As I had the pleasure of watching Paddles bowl quite a bit, I would say that early in his career he was quite a fast bowler with not a lot of options, but later in his career he slowed down his pace and became the master of cut, swing and control
    You know it makes sense.

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    International Regular 16 tins of Spam's Avatar
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    Yeah, he put such effort into fine-tuning and improving his bowling that it bordered on obsessive. I very driven man, heavily motivated by his stats.
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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Hadlee was one of a tiny number of bowlers who just got better and better with age.

    I'd imagine Courtney Walsh was pretty similar...?

    Clarrie Grimmett would possibly be another...?

    Far more bowlers and batsmen than not, though, taper-off, if only a bit, towards the end of their careers (and, indeed, most experience a rough start, though sometimes only for a game or two).
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    Banned Stumped's Avatar
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    ha!!....thats incredible

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    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    Steve Waugh definitely improved with age, aside from a drop-off around 2001 or so. He scored the vast majority of his test centuries after he was 32, and averaged under 40 for almost half of his career, and almost 60 in the second half. Walsh, as Richard said, is another one. He more or less consistently got better until his last series or two, when he finally dropped off a bit. Quite a number of batsmen improve plenty as they get older with improved maturity and shot selection, and spinners often improve as well. It's generally the other way around with quicks, who peak between 24 and 32 or so and then often decline quickly.

    Some other players decline much earlier, obviously. Viv Richards averaged over 60 until around his 30th birthday, and 58 in his first 50 tests, and finished with a career average of 50. Up until the end of the 80/81 season (44 tests), Richards made 3969 runs @ 62.02. After that he managed 4289 runs @ 42.05, in 77 more tests. Tendulkar might end up in this group too.

    Players with constant injury problems like Jeff Thomson and Waqar Younis also tend to tank later in their careers. Up until playing Australia in Pakistan in '94, Waqar had 180 wickets @ 18.79 and finished with 373 @ 23.56. Up until the end of the 70s, Thomson had 152 wickets @ 25.61 and finished with 200 @ 28.01. Before his first major injury he averaged 21 or so.
    Last edited by FaaipDeOiad; 30-01-2007 at 12:16 AM.
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    Hall of Fame Member honestbharani's Avatar
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    yeah, amazing stats that for Hadlee.
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    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Gooch would be another one - 12 of 20 Test tons after the age of 36.
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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FaaipDeOiad View Post
    Steve Waugh definitely improved with age, aside from a drop-off around 2001 or so. He scored the vast majority of his test centuries after he was 32, and averaged under 40 for almost half of his career, and almost 60 in the second half.
    Waugh wasn't quite that simple - his first 49 Tests weren't really that successful (though he averaged 35.76, it goes down to 29.81 if you exclude 1989 in England). In his next 90 Tests he averaged 61.06, then had some comedown in his last 25 and averaged 37.75 (Ban and Zim not included).
    Players with constant injury problems like Jeff Thomson and Waqar Younis also tend to tank later in their careers. Up until playing Australia in Pakistan in '94, Waqar had 180 wickets @ 18.79 and finished with 373 @ 23.56. Up until the end of the 70s, Thomson had 152 wickets @ 25.61 and finished with 200 @ 28.01. Before his first major injury he averaged 21 or so.
    Thomson was a complicated case. You might as well exclude his debut in 1972\73 because he should never have played - had a broken foot - in his first 16 excluding that he averaged 23.92. Then he had that collision with Turner at the start of 1977\78, but came back almost as good and in his next 15 still managed to average 25.76. He then joined Packer and played just 2 Tests (doing not much) in the next 3 years. In his next 11 he averaged 44.47. However, it looked like he'd end his career in excellent fashion when he averaged 18.68 in his final series (playing only after Lillee broke down) in 1982\83. Unfortunately, he gave-in to begging and came out of retirement 2-and-a-half years later, and had 2 shockers in 1985.

    You can give a simpler Thomson equation - and say just that the basic number - 28 - is a poor illustration of his worth, because you knock off just 3 games (the first 1 and the last 2) and his average in the vast majority of his career is 26.47. Which is actually a pretty good average. And he should never, ever, have played those other 3 games.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178 View Post
    Gooch would be another one - 12 of 20 Test tons after the age of 36.
    Gooch was perhaps the most incredible case of modern times:

    He played 2 games in 1975, which are pretty meaningless because he made a pair on a sticky on debut.

    Between 1978 and 1988 he played 66 Tests (missing a load more because he decided to go on a SA rebel tour) and did very well, averaging 39.16. In 1989 he had a shocker, but reconstructed his technique so well that between 1990 (when he was 36-et-demi years old) and the First Test in 1994 he averaged a stunning 60.95 in 35 Tests. He then tapered-off, averaging just 20.89 in his last 10 games, which was a bit of a shame.

    I started watching cricket in 1992, and it's no coincidence that Gooch was my first hero.

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    I am not sure if stats reflect this but Kumble too, keeps getting better and better with age.
    Kumble as a bowler now is far more potent than the bowler he was in the 90s.

  15. #15
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Indeed he is, but he's still far from flawless.

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