State & Future of New Zealand Cricket

[aussie]

Don't know if any Kiwi blokes feel this way but just looking at some of the younger blokes that i've seen playing for them in recent years with some of the older regulars i.e Fleming, Astle coming to the end of their careers the future of NZ cricket does look a bit flat to me given how competitive they have been in my time of watching cricket.

Of all the young bats i've seen i.e How, Papps, The Marshall's, Ryder, How, Sinclair, Vincent. Only Taylor has really impressed to me, Marshall started well but has really fallen, Sinclair has disappeared of the scene while the others aren't too convincing IMO.

With the bowlers Vettori has been around like forever and will be around for a solid few more years while even if Bond's injuries suddenly ease up in the coming years he might not play for more than 3 more years & we all know without Bond the Kiwi attack lacks cutting edge. They will be hoping the likes of Mills, Franklin, Patel, Gillespie along with any other young quick steppin up on the domestic scene to come good i think.

Other senior players like McCullum who IMO takes his place for granted, Oram, Styris will have to step up post WC or else NZ cricket could go into a bit of a sad state which would be sad since i've always known the kiwis as a solid hard working bunch with one or two stars most notably Cairns & Bond.

But maybe i'm going over the top a bit here, but i hope i'm wrong world cricket can't afford any of the major 8 nations to really plummit..

 

[_Ed_]

No mention of Taylor? His 84 was pretty handy yesterday.

And it's a bit hard on Mills to expect even more improvement from him, he's been our best ODI bowler for the last 12 months.

 

[Richard]

Don't know if any Kiwi blokes feel this way but just looking at some of the younger blokes that i've seen playing for them in recent years with some of the older regulars i.e Fleming, Astle coming to the end of their careers the future of NZ cricket does look a bit flat to me given how competitive they have been in my time of watching cricket.

Of all the young bats i've seen i.e How, Papps, The Marshall's, Ryder, How, Sinclair, Vincent. Only Ryder has really impressed to me, Marshall started well but has really fallen, Sinclair has disappeared of the scene while the others aren't too convincing IMO.

With the bowlers Vettori has been around like forever and will be around for a solid few more years while even if Bond's injuries suddenly ease up in the coming years he might not play for more than 3 more years & we all know without Bond the Kiwi attack lacks cutting edge. They will be hoping the likes of Mills, Franklin, Patel, Gillespie along with any other young quick steppin up on the domestic scene to come good i think.

Other senior players like McCullum who IMO takes his place for granted, Oram, Styris will have to step up post WC or else NZ cricket could go into a bit of a sad state which would be sad since i've always known the kiwis as a solid hard working bunch with one or two stars most notably Cairns & Bond.

But maybe i'm going over the top a bit here, but i hope i'm wrong world cricket can't afford any of the major 8 nations to really plummit..

Astle isn't a star? Twose (in ODIs) wasn't a star? Vettori hasn't had moments where he's been a star?

Really rather remarkably, Mark Gillespie actually appears to have the makings of a pretty decent ODI bowler.

If, and it's a big if, New Zealand manage to get everyone fit in the next few weeks, we might see one of the best NZ sides since WC99...

X (replace Fulton with specialist opener and open with him)
Astle
McMillan
Fleming
Taylor
Oram
McCullum
Vettori
Mills
Gillespie
Bond

I mean, Bond is a slightly-better Allott, Vettori's a rare ODI-class spinner, Taylor will hopefully turn-out to be a longer-term version of Twose, Oram's easily good enough to fill Cairns' shoes, McCullum's OK if not as good as Parore in ODIs, and McMillan's wasted that far down the order.

And that's without even having Styris in the picture (clearly he'd currently be ahead of McMillan, though I'd much prefer to have McCullum at the top and Styris at six if he had to play).

 

[aussie]

No mention of Taylor? His 84 was pretty handy yesterday.

And it's a bit hard on Mills to expect even more improvement from him, he's been our best ODI bowler for the last 12 months.

crap my mistake, mixed up Ryder & Taylor.

 

[aussie]

Astle isn't a star? Twose (in ODIs) wasn't a star? Vettori hasn't had moments where he's been a star?.

I'd give you Twose, but Astle & Vettori along with Fleming, Allot would just be in the very good category.

Astle has had his moments of brilliance most notably that double hundred @ Christchurch that i'm sure you'll never forget, but time and again has looked a bit ruffled againts top quality bowling. Vettori brillaint on his day no doubt (mostly vs AUS) but stuggles to bowl againts batting sides that don't try to attack him as much as Australia.

 

[Richard]

Most strokeplaying openers (Jayasuriya, Ganguly, Johnson, Sehwag, Kaluwitharana, Afridi, Gilchrist, Gayle) have looked ruffled against top-quality bowlers. In case it's escaped your notice, it's not exactly easy to smash the likes of McGrath and Ambrose around, y'know. Michael Slaters and Saeed Anwars are rare specimens.

Astle has belted average attacks and has sometimes hung-in there against more accurate ones and that's all you can ask of a ODI opener.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Bond shouldn't be batting at eleven.

 

[Natman20]

I think New Zealand has a bit of depth and after the world cup expect to see some of the following names to come in the fray:

Graeme Aldridge - Bowl (pace)
Jesse Ryder - Bat
Tim McIntosh - Bat (how old is he?)
Nathan McCullum - Bowl (Spin)
Bruce Martin - Bowl (Spin)
Peter Ingram - Bat (I dont know much about him)
Hamish Bennet - Bowl (Fast)
Jamie How
Greg Hay - Bat (1st domestic season but hey looks reasonable)
Bevan Diamante - Bowl (Pace)
Mark Orchard - All-rounder (Spin I think)
Richard Jones - Bat
Rob Nicol - Bat
Bradley Scott - Bowl (pace)

Some people will disagree but yeah. I dont know the age of a lot of these players though

 

[Prince EWS]

Astle isn't a star? Twose (in ODIs) wasn't a star? Vettori hasn't had moments where he's been a star?

Really rather remarkably, Mark Gillespie actually appears to have the makings of a pretty decent ODI bowler.

If, and it's a big if, New Zealand manage to get everyone fit in the next few weeks, we might see one of the best NZ sides since WC99...

X (replace Fulton with specialist opener and open with him)
Astle
McMillan
Fleming
Taylor
Oram
McCullum
Vettori
Mills
Gillespie
Bond

I mean, Bond is a slightly-better Allott, Vettori's a rare ODI-class spinner, Taylor will hopefully turn-out to be a longer-term version of Twose, Oram's easily good enough to fill Cairns' shoes, McCullum's OK if not as good as Parore in ODIs, and McMillan's wasted that far down the order.

And that's without even having Styris in the picture (clearly he'd currently be ahead of McMillan, though I'd much prefer to have McCullum at the top and Styris at six if he had to play).

Considering you rely so much on statistics and rarely mix performances between the two forms of the game, why do you have Jacob Oram batting at 6? Surely you can see he's not good enough for that position in ODIs.

 

[Natman20]

Oram well and truely deserves his spot there. If anything he needs to come in earlier to avoid the pressure situations. I think he considers himself a batsman that can bowl a bit.

 

[Prince EWS]

I think he considers himself a batsman that can bowl a bit.

Then he should not be in the side. He is quite possibly the most over-rated ODI batsman ever. He averages 18.86 in 87 ODIs and 23.34 in 155 List A matches. Hardly anything that jumps out and says "number 6 ODI batsman." His bowling is quite good at ODI level and he should be picked based on this, but his batting is ridiculously over-rated and he would get nosebleeds batting anywhere higher than 7.

At test level, he is clearly a batsman who can bowl a bit - but it's quite the opposite in one day matches IMO.

 

[Craig]

Taylor at 5? He looks good at number 3 IMO and Fulton I would rather then McMillan.

 

[Will Scarlet]

Oram is so over-rated!

What ever happened to Richard Sherlock and Te Atu Davis?

NZ should pick one of the form openers while they are in from domestic on form if the BCs keep losing early wickets. Both Ingram (yes I know he's only come back into FC cricket recently) and Cumming have been in excellent form recently. Forget How or McIntosh until they start scoring regular runs.

 

[Matt52]

I think New Zealand has a bit of depth and after the world cup expect to see some of the following names to come in the fray:

Graeme Aldridge - Bowl (pace)
Jesse Ryder - Bat
Tim McIntosh - Bat (how old is he?)
Nathan McCullum - Bowl (Spin)
Bruce Martin - Bowl (Spin)
Peter Ingram - Bat (I dont know much about him)
Hamish Bennet - Bowl (Fast)
Jamie How
Greg Hay - Bat (1st domestic season but hey looks reasonable)
Bevan Diamante - Bowl (Pace)
Mark Orchard - All-rounder (Spin I think)
Richard Jones - Bat
Rob Nicol - Bat
Bradley Scott - Bowl (pace)

Some people will disagree but yeah. I dont know the age of a lot of these players though

Ryder is the real prospect there. he is just as , if not more talented than taylor and Nzs batting in the future will be based around taylor and him , the way it has been based around Fleming and Astle for the past 10 years.

Richard jones is 101 years old and is lucky to make the Auckland side,. He is nowhere near good enough to even warrant talking about.

The problem for me is that we just dont have enough decent players overall in order to develop the guys that do have real talent. Ryder would develop into a much better player if he was playing in the Aus competition because its simply a higher standard. he would learn more, more quickly.
I think they should seriously think about getting rid of one of the provinces and amalgamating them into just 5 provinces. It might be more difficult to have a schedule and there would be less opportunity for youngsters but the quality would surely improve and that must be the goal of NZ cricket. We have too many hangers on in domestic cricket. How is Ryder going to improve by facing part time medium pacers.??

 

[NZTailender]

Ryder is the real prospect there. he is just as , if not more talented than taylor and Nzs batting in the future will be based around taylor and him , the way it has been based around Fleming and Astle for the past 10 years.

Richard jones is 101 years old and is lucky to make the Auckland side,. He is nowhere near good enough to even warrant talking about.

The problem for me is that we just dont have enough decent players overall in order to develop the guys that do have real talent. Ryder would develop into a much better player if he was playing in the Aus competition because its simply a higher standard. he would learn more, more quickly.
I think they should seriously think about getting rid of one of the provinces and amalgamating them into just 5 provinces. It might be more difficult to have a schedule and there would be less opportunity for youngsters but the quality would surely improve and that must be the goal of NZ cricket. We have too many hangers on in domestic cricket. How is Ryder going to improve by facing part time medium pacers.??

While I tend to agree, why would 5 be a good number? You'd end up having byes. 4 would be too little. Why not 6?

And perhaps there needs to be the attraction of more overseas players. Getting international fringe players would be tops, but it won't happen much. Perhaps young up and comers from the other countries that are just getting started and would jump at the chance to play cricket overseas when it'd be winter at home?

Oh! A good idea might be to get Bangladesh & Zimbabwe domestic/international players. It may not be the highest standard of player but Nafees Iqbal, Brendan Taylor, Shariar Nafees etc>>>>James Marshall et al.

 

[Matt52]

While I tend to agree, why would 5 be a good number? You'd end up having byes. 4 would be too little. Why not 6?

And perhaps there needs to be the attraction of more overseas players. Getting international fringe players would be tops, but it won't happen much. Perhaps young up and comers from the other countries that are just getting started and would jump at the chance to play cricket overseas when it'd be winter at home?

Oh! A good idea might be to get Bangladesh & Zimbabwe domestic/international players. It may not be the highest standard of player but Nafees Iqbal, Brendan Taylor, Shariar Nafees etc>>>>James Marshall et al.

Why 5? No reason that it specifically has to be 5 but I just thought having one less team would concentrate what talent we have while still keeping enough back up and a decent size pool of players. The All blacks basically choose the team from 5 super 14 sides so it would be enough i think. Its just a case of getting rid of the poorest 11 players in Nz domestic cricket. we could fill in the time with overseas countries sending development teams to play in NZ conditions against our provinces before playing NZ A or something. Organize our domestic teams to all fly and play a bit in the North of Aus in November for better conditions and to learn how to play in new conditions. I suppose this all costs money but if they just let NZ domestic cricket slide and continue the way it is, I dont see how it will get much better.

Besides, the country sort of fits into 5 teams better than 6 teams. Two in the South.- let canterbury go up to Nelson. Let Wellington go up to Palmy, Give Napier and Taranaki to Northern in a middle of the country provinces team and let Auckland have Northland. It will be more practical and create higher quality teams. Just cut out the fat.

 

[NZTailender]

Maybe the 6th team could be "Rest of NZ" un "unofficial matches" so the 5th team still gets to play (against, perhaps, under 19's as well or whatever) so they're still playing cricket but it doesn't count towards First Class or List A. Gives the teams a chance to experiment, I guess.

 

[Matt52]

Just as an add on to my first post. NZ cricket suffers from a lack of money and resources. If there is one less team then they will probably save a fair amount of money. Add that to the fact that people will probably be more likely to turn up and watch a domestic game with an Auckland line up of
J Marshall (northland)
L Vincent
H Marshall (northland)
S Styris
(just a guess)
....play against a wellington line up of

M Bell
J Ryder
R Taylor (masterton)
S Fleming

rather than the teams we have now. And more spectators means more money, which means better grounds, training facilities and coaching, which leads to better performances and more crowds , then more money and so on. It makes more sense than having 6 sides with some of the hangers on we have in the teams, or young guys that just arent good enough.

 

[Richard]

Considering you rely so much on statistics and rarely mix performances between the two forms of the game, why do you have Jacob Oram batting at 6? Surely you can see he's not good enough for that position in ODIs.

How often has he had the ODI chance to play long innings?

IMO he's every bit as good as Cairns in ODIs (and certainly on-track to be better with the bat in Tests while nowhere near as good with the ball).

 

[Richard]

Taylor at 5?

IMO Taylor is good enough to bat anywhere (Twose usually batted five, didn't he?).

McMillan, on the other hand, isn't. He's wasted at five or six.

He looks good at number 3 IMO and Fulton I would rather then McMillan.

Maybe. But I've always thought McMillan had quite some potential, and Fulton's never remotely convinced me. Did well at first against a Mickey-Mouse Sri Lankan side and has done virtually sod-all since.