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The ICC is sending wrong signals by awarding the match to the hosts!

anzac

International Debutant
I think some of you have missed my point in so much as that we have had these 'disturbances' at 3 ODI's in a row B4 some decisive action was taken!!!! Crowd disturbances piss me off at the best of times in any sport, but the lack of any prompt & decisive response from the 'powers that be' at local / national / international levels makes things worse - this has taken too long and so far there is no apparent deterrent / repercussions for any such future 'incidents'!!!!!

The comments regarding cancelled tours & bans re terrorism & politics was to highlight that such action has been taken in the past because of 'non cricketing issues' - a precedent has been set re action available to be taken that can then be applied to 'cricketing issues'!!!!

I have also seen a report that over 1000 people have been killed in this region of India this year thru local conflict - surely this should also be taken into account when faced with these 'disturbances'????

I am aware that these 'incidents' occur elsewhere in the game, but I am not aware of it having occured at consecutive matches in the same country. I used that example as it was in the same country as the current 'incidents', and to illustrate that this has been going on for decades without a definative system of proposed penalties having been put in place by either the national or international governing bodies!!! FYI the 'incident' I was referring to involved a spectator riot where the stadium was burnt down during a test match!!!!

Sorry to disappoint but the response re possible Indian bans does not hold water. The game may be akin to a religion in India and may have the largest population following the game, but India are not the current WC holders, leading the Test Championship ladder, nor are they currently dominating the game in either form!!!!

From a strictly 'on the field' point of view there would be a far greater impact if Australia were banned. Yes the competition would not be so one sided in most instances, but the game as a whole would suffer as the Australians have taken the game to another level - it is not their fault that currently the rest of the world has yet to catch up.

The precedent has already been set regarding the banning of teams with SA's exclusion on 'non-cricketing' issues re internal politics!!!!

Again the arguement re consideration for teams and players does not hold up if the situation is deemed serious enough. What consideration was given to the team, the local game, and the supporters in the SA decision??? - ultimately consideration for them was not greater than the decision to take some affirmative action and to make a statement!!!!

The idea of doing pat downs etc on everyone b4 every match is too time consuming, and people will eventually stop going to 'live' matches - the 'cure' causing more regular disruption than the 'cause'?????. Furthermore increased security & pat downs may be a form of prevention, but they are not a deterrant so far as possible / potential repercussions go!!!!

Other sporting codes have taken action banning teams regarding hooliganism as I have indicated in an earlier post. Admittedly this was as the result of deaths and repeat incidents of violence, but I would hate cricket to have to get to this stage b4 any definative action is taken as prevention is always better than cure!!!

Please do not get me wrong - I would prefer not to have any team banned, but I think that any nation must realise that this could be the ultimate penalty for failure to address such issues in their own back yard!!!!

:(!:(!:(!
 

Choora

State Regular
Originally posted by marc71178
I disagree - this thread started because games were halted by idiots in the stands - that is far worse for the game of Cricket than the Bevan Beer Can incident

Had the can actually struck Bevan, you wouldn't have been saying that

, [/quote]the likes of which will not happen again - I wouldn't be surprised if we see a repeat in one of the last 3 ODI's though - that is the problem. [/quote]

Hopefully it won't happen again!
 

warrioryohannan

U19 Cricketer
Originally posted by anzac
Sorry to disappoint but the response re possible Indian bans does not hold water. The game may be akin to a religion in India and may have the largest population following the game, but India are not the current WC holders, leading the Test Championship ladder, nor are they currently dominating the game in either form!!!!

From a strictly 'on the field' point of view there would be a far greater impact if Australia were banned. Yes the competition would not be so one sided in most instances, but the game as a whole would suffer as the Australians have taken the game to another level - it is not their fault that currently the rest of the world has yet to catch up.

:(!:(!:(!
You are dead wrong about it. Suppose if for some reason Australia got banned, the game would surely suffer , but it won't be as bad as it would it would be if India got banned.This is because any such move of banning India would practically result in the Cricketing world getting spilt up, with Ind/Pak/Sl/Bang and possibly SA & Zimb parting away from the rest.Whether one like it or not, but thats the reality.
Banning is simply not the solution, it would only create serious problems, ICC knows that and that why they did were not able to take any action against India and SA just a few months back when both the countries prevented the ICC nominated referee from supervising the match!
 

anzac

International Debutant
you can not be serious.......

basically you are saying that India can just about do as they like, and either the ICC won't / can't do anything about it, or if they do then India will supposedly lead a revolt against the ICC and start a splinter competition!!!

and why, pray tell, do you assume that the rest of those teams would automatically follow India - about the only teams you did not mention were Australia, England,NZ & WI????? I've been hearing talk about dissention re BCCI V ICC & rival competitions for years and have only heard it reported as an Indian led sub-continent revolt V the Rest, so I am curious as to why you would now include the likes of Zim & SA????

I'm intrigued as to your reasoning that India holds so much clout - I would assume it would have something to do with the number of people that support cricket in India and the sponsorship / revenue generated by this??? If this is the basis for your arguement and if this is all the game has come down to, then they have my permission to take their bat & ball & go play elsewhere!!!!!!

The issue here is not who has who by the short & curlies, rather what is the correct action & deterrant to be taken for the good of the game, players and spectators alike!!!!!

:(!:(!:(!

[Edited on 17/11/2002 by anzac]

[Edited on 17/11/2002 by anzac]
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Had the can actually struck Bevan, you wouldn't have been saying that
That was one idiot throwing a can - there is no way there has only been one person causing the trouble at 3 consecutive games - say I stand by my comment that the recent problems are far worse for the game than that one-off which was immediately stamped out.
 

V Reddy

International Debutant
There was trouble in that whole series marc. I particularly remember seeing the PAK fans celebrating with the crackers in the stands. There were also families there in that stand. Easily some one could have been seriously injured. Its more more dangerous than whats happ. now.
 

CricketGuru

School Boy/Girl Captain
Originally posted by vishnureddy
There was trouble in that whole series marc. I particularly remember seeing the PAK fans celebrating with the crackers in the stands. There were also families there in that stand. Easily some one could have been seriously injured. Its more more dangerous than whats happ. now.
There is a difference between trying to hurt the international players that come to your homeland and risking of hurting some one in the crowd by the crowd.
 

aussie_beater

State Vice-Captain
The only time a team was banned by ICC from playing international cricket was when SA were banned for totally political reasons.That is completely different to anything that is happening these days.

Countries are refusing to tour Pakistan for mostly security reasons and that's a decision being made by individual countries' cricket boards and not by ICC.

Banning a country from playing is an extreme measure that is way too harsh for incidents like crowd trouble.Its ridiculous to even think in those lines.

Most of the revenue for cricket comes from the sub continent and so banning India would have a catastrophic affect on the commercial side of cricket.That's a fact and no one can deny it.And unless money is there, no sport can survive and talk like... "if this is all the game has come down to, then they have my permission to take their bat & ball & go play elsewhere".... is nothing more then dopey bravado from which no good can come about.

The problem is a law and order issue, and it needs to be tackled at that level with help and support from cricket admins.
 

Bazza

International 12th Man
Originally posted by aussie_beaterBanning a country from playing is an extreme measure that is way too harsh for incidents like crowd trouble.
Well English clubs were banned from Europe for many years for crowd realted trouble - what is so different about this?
 

aussie_beater

State Vice-Captain
Originally posted by Bazzaroodoo
Originally posted by aussie_beaterBanning a country from playing is an extreme measure that is way too harsh for incidents like crowd trouble.
Well English clubs were banned from Europe for many years for crowd realted trouble - what is so different about this?
That was when around 40 people died in the rioting in that Liverpool match against Juventus.So, this situation is hugely different from that.

I am not saying people have to die for actions to be taken, but the reaction have to be predicated by the severity of the action to an extent.
 

warrioryohannan

U19 Cricketer
Originally posted by anzac
you can not be serious.......

basically you are saying that India can just about do as they like, and either the ICC won't / can't do anything about it, or if they do then India will supposedly lead a revolt against the ICC and start a splinter competition!!!


I only reminded you of the consequences of an extreme step.If you had been following the recent development, you wouldn't had been so surprised really.What do you expect from Indian Cricket board (headed by JAGMOHAN) if its get banned by the ICC?? it will rally behind the other Subcontinental Boards and chances are there there will be a spilt in such a case


[/quote]

and why, pray tell, do you assume that the rest of those teams would automatically follow India - about the only teams you did not mention were Australia, England,NZ & WI????? I've been hearing talk about dissention re BCCI V ICC & rival competitions for years and have only heard it reported as an Indian led sub-continent revolt V the Rest, so I am curious as to why you would now include the likes of Zim & SA????
[/quote]
While mentioning SA and Zimb i did add the word "possibly".I do think if there is a split, SA will side towards India, as they did during the Tendulkar episode!



[/quote]

I'm intrigued as to your reasoning that India holds so much clout - I would assume it would have something to do with the number of people that support cricket in India and the sponsorship / revenue generated by this??? If this is the basis for your arguement and if this is all the game has come down to, then they have my permission to take their bat & ball & go play elsewhere
[/quote]

60 perent of viewers and 70 percent of revenues comes from India!And when one has power then one can go all the way without needing anyone's approval(just look at Uncle Sam)

But there are other factors too.The differences b/w the Asian cricket boards and the ICC seems to be growing everyday.The Asian countries have a strong understanding of backing each other. Just to give you an example, NZ toured Pak last time only after India Cricket board gave the threath of not playing with NZ in future unless NZ fullfill their commitment of playing a series in Pak.

Please note, i'm not looking forward to seeing such a day when there will be a split in the game, nor am i in favor of some nations parting ways with the rest when one of them get banned.I just think that banning in the first place is not a solution to anything but will only be a big blunder and what will happen after that would be an absolute disaster!
 

warrioryohannan

U19 Cricketer
Originally posted by marc71178
But the ICC did take action and stripped the match of any status - in effect a mini ban?
Call it a micro mini ban, if one can ever call it a ban!
Had the teams involved been Kenya and Zimb, the ICC would have taken a much stronger action!
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
What do you expect from Indian Cricket board (headed by JAGMOHAN) if its get banned by the ICC?? it will rally behind the other Subcontinental Boards and chances are there there will be a spilt in such a case
I'm not so sure they would all rally around to be honest - I mean Pak and Ind still don't play each other, so what use is there to Pak in supporting them?
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
While mentioning SA and Zimb i did add the word "possibly".I do think if there is a split, SA will side towards India, as they did during the Tendulkar episode!

They did that more for the money than because they wanted to support India - the only way to get the Test played was to back them in this, so they backed them.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Had the teams involved been Kenya and Zimb, the ICC would have taken a much stronger action!
Had the teams involved been Kenya and Zimbabwe, I don't think the incident would have even been noticed - lets face it, Tendulkar is a bit of a bigger name than Guy Whittall!
 

Bazza

International 12th Man
Originally posted by warrioryohannanJust to give you an example, NZ toured Pak last time only after India Cricket board gave the threath of not playing with NZ in future unless NZ fullfill their commitment of playing a series in Pak.


So they held the game to ransom, which is exactly what you're trying to say they don't do!

Also on the Heysel thing, we could do without something like that happening BEFORE action is taken. It's no use saying, "oh that was different, nobody got hurt this time" - the longer it goes untouched the more chance there is it will get out of control. Several people were seriously hurt here 18 months ago when the Pakistan supporters invaded the pitch. Only because Alec Stewart conceded the game was an amicable solution reached.

Anyway pleased to see that netting has been put up for game 5 apparently.
 

Bazza

International 12th Man
So was the match stripped of it's ODI statues then? Which means it's still 2-1?
 

warrioryohannan

U19 Cricketer
Originally posted by marc71178
What do you expect from Indian Cricket board (headed by JAGMOHAN) if its get banned by the ICC?? it will rally behind the other Subcontinental Boards and chances are there there will be a spilt in such a case
I'm not so sure they would all rally around to be honest - I mean Pak and Ind still don't play each other, so what use is there to Pak in supporting them?
Yeah and just think, they don't play each other but still India gave a threath to NZ that force them to tour Pak.The reason why India doesn't play with Pak is coz of Govt decision and its going to change soon.Indian and Pak cricket board are very close, India have backed Pak on nearly all issues (like Akhter's case) while Pak has sided with India and so has Lanka!
 

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