South Africa & Quotas

[pasag]

In my travels through the internet, I came across the news that South Africa had released a provisional World Cup squad today.

The following caught my eye:

Convenor of selectors Haroon Lorgat said South Africa were confident of reaching racial targets after naming 14 coloured players on Tuesday in their provisional 30-man squad for the World Cup.

Cricket South Africa (CSA) has imposed a target of seven coloured players in the final 15-man squad which needs to be announced by February 13.

"That's the target we have been aspiring to achieve and the last two years have been part of that process," Lorgat told reporters. "I can't see why we won't achieve that and I will be over the moon if we can select seven or more players of colour.

My initial reaction was 'wtf'. Am I missing something here?

Thoughts?

 

[Goughy]

Have you not been reading my repeated thoughts on the matter?

This should surprise noone, especially as these 'targets' were released 2 years ago. Again, as I have stated before and included the quote in another post, the aim is to have virtually all non-white team in the future.

What message young white cricketers get, one can only assume.

 

[Langeveldt]

Probably a misquote, he's a buffoon anyway

Mind you, 7 coloured players out of 14 and we'd still be the second strongest ODI side in the world, not the worst position to be in

 

[steds]

I thought they'd "officially" got rid of the quota thing for the national team, but still had a tendency to lean towards black players. Am I mistaken?

 

[Langeveldt]

the aim is to have an all non-white team in the future.

So why have they just handed debuts to two fairly average white cricketers in Morne Morkel and Paul Harris, discarding Robbie Peterson and Paul Adams?

I know what your point is, but they seem to be shocking in their execution if they are trying to get an all coloured team..

 

[Langeveldt]

I thought they'd "officially" got rid of the quota thing for the national team, but still had a tendency to lean towards black players. Am I mistaken?

Yeah thats what I think is going on (see my above post), Goughy seems to paint a bleaker picture however..

 

[Goughy]

So why have they just handed debuts to two fairly average white cricketers in Morne Morkel and Paul Harris, discarding Robbie Peterson and Paul Adams?

I know what your point is, but they seem to be shocking in their execution if they are trying to get an all coloured team..

Because they are far from average, especially compared to the other talent. Paul Harris was the leading wickettaker in Supersport Series last year and Morne Morkel is classed as a very promising talent with Donald being a firm advocate.

Robbie P only plays because of quotas and Adams has taken less than 30 wickets in the last 2.5 Supersport Series seasons at over 50 per wicket and is barely a club player anymore (yet still makes the "Rest of SA" team).

Probably a misquote, he's a buffoon anyway

It certainly is not a misquote. Those numbers were released 2 years ago and are part of SA cricket strategy.

How can people think that there are no quotas in SA cricket? Have I been speaking to myself the past 3000 posts? (rhetorical, pls dont answer )

 

[Langeveldt]

I think they are enforcing quotas for squads, and picking the final XI on ability..

Lorgat said that although CSA had set the selectors a target of at least seven players of colour, the team would not be selected on colour but on merit.

“I would be over the moon if we could pick seven or more (players of colour), but we're not picking on colour, we're picking the best team,” he said.

 

[Goughy]

Again, as I have stated before and included the quote in another post, the aim is to have virtually all non-white team in the future.

What message young white cricketers get, one can only assume.

Found it

Now if you dont believe me about the implications of being a white cricketer in SA read the following quote from Gerald Majola, SA Cricket boss.

We don't have quotas, we've never had quotas, we have targets. In 10 years' time the majority of this team will be black, that is our target. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/other_international/south_africa/4253241.stm

Nothing to do with being the best team in the world and certainly nothing to make an up-an-coming white cricketer think he has a future.

 

[Langeveldt]

Found it

"Our mandate to the selectors is to pick the best team, and we put our best team on the field." - Gerald Majola

Apart from two cricketers, Thami Tsolekile and Robin Peterson, I have in my nine years of supporting South Africa, no reason to suggest that they haven't been putting out their best team..

 

[Goughy]

"Our mandate to the selectors is to pick the best team, and we put our best team on the field." - Gerald Majola

Apart from two cricketers, Thami Tsolekile and Robin Peterson, I have in my nine years of supporting South Africa, no reason to suggest that they haven't been putting out their best team..

Then without wanting to sound harsh, you are either blind or have your head stuck in the sand.

When the official quotas ended and targets were implimented (roughly around the time of the appointment of a young, politically weak and impressionable captian in Smith) the situation has declined.

Ontong, Bosman and Alviro Petersen no where near good enough. Kruger merely an average player and undeserving. Prince, Amla and Duminy all selected before they deserved it or were ready. Ngam and Zondeki before they were ready. In all of the above situations there were better white players.

Prince has gone on to be a decent player and Duminy has potential but that does not excuse their selections at completely inappropiate times.

The quota policy has not thrown up too many issues and players due to Ntini and Gibbs being long standing members that cover at least half the quota. But that does not mean that SA has not often gone onto the field with a less than strongest team on many occasions

 

[Dick Rockett]

Target = quota by another name.

I'm disappointed this bollocks is still going on.

 

[PhoenixFire]

What race is Gibbs?

 

[Goughy]

What race is Gibbs?

Officially classed as coloured ie not black, not white. It is an ethnic group that has its own history and culture seperate to the other races in SA. Skin clour wise they can range from very fair to very dark.

Ashwell Prince is also in this category

 

[Langeveldt]

Officially classed as coloured ie not black, not white. It is an ethnic group that has its own history and culture seperate to the other races in SA. Skin clour wise they can range from very fair to very dark.

Ashwell Prince is also in this category

As is Robbie Peterson and Justin Ontong if I'm not mistaken..

 

[Richard]

Ontong, Bosman and Alviro Petersen no where near good enough. Kruger merely an average player and undeserving. Prince, Amla and Duminy all selected before they deserved it or were ready. Ngam and Zondeki before they were ready. In all of the above situations there were better white players.

I take the point about there being better players, but the same thing can certainly be said about England and almost certainly about nearly every cricketing country.

And aside from David Terbrugge, I'm struggling to think of better white bowlers than Ngam (who looked one hell of a prospect and is certainly not alone in being picked too young - see Jerome Taylor, for example) or Kruger - for example, Kruger was picked at the same time as Steyn and both were equally horrible.

As for Bosman and Petersen, have you never seen any other countries pick average players for ODIs because "he's a big hitter"? Again, for a recent example, see Matthew Prior. Nor was Bosman given longer than he was due, he was dropped when it became apparent he wasn't good enough. Not perminantly, I don't think, but hopefully we won't see him in this World Cup at least.

 

[adharcric]

Then without wanting to sound harsh, you are either blind or have your head stuck in the sand.

When the official quotas ended and targets were implimented (roughly around the time of the appointment of a young, politically weak and impressionable captian in Smith) the situation has declined.

Ontong, Bosman and Alviro Petersen no where near good enough. Kruger merely an average player and undeserving. Prince, Amla and Duminy all selected before they deserved it or were ready. Ngam and Zondeki before they were ready. In all of the above situations there were better white players.

Prince has gone on to be a decent player and Duminy has potential but that does not excuse their selections at completely inappropiate times.

The quota policy has not thrown up too many issues and players due to Ntini and Gibbs being long standing members that cover at least half the quota. But that does not mean that SA has not often gone onto the field with a less than strongest team on many occasions

All of those black players were given a chance but most of them (Ontong, Peterson, Ngam, Zondeki) aren't in the World Cup scheme of things.
Amla and Prince are only in the test side and Duminy is in neither. Do you really think they'll drop established players just to achieve that "target"? I don't.

Smith, de Villiers, Gibbs, Kallis, Kemp, Boucher, Pollock, Ntini, Nel, Langeveldt, Hall
Those eleven are certain selections IMO. Bosman > Dippenear according to you, but that was due to the latter's CT failures. Which other black players will suddenly pop in?

 

[Goughy]

All of those black players were given a chance but most of them (Ontong, Peterson, Ngam, Zondeki) aren't in the World Cup scheme of things.
Amla and Prince are only in the test side and Duminy is in neither. Do you really think they'll drop established players just to achieve that "target"? I don't.

Smith, de Villiers, Gibbs, Kallis, Kemp, Boucher, Pollock, Ntini, Nel, Langeveldt, Hall
Those eleven are certain selections IMO. Bosman > Dippenear according to you, but that was due to the latter's CT failures. Which other black players will suddenly pop in?

You are quite free to think what you want, you would be wrong though.

It doesnt matter which non-white players pop in. The fact is they will.

It pointless me debating what is fact.

 

[TT Boy]

Seven seems like a big number (out of 15) but when you look at the squad of 30 and the vast number of 'coloured' cricketers you can't argue with most of their selections, especially cricketers like Alfonso Thomas whose not there by colour but through sheer weight of performance. Bosman aside, Johan Botha is easily the worst selection and his ****ing white.

 

[adharcric]

You are quite free to think what you want, you would be wrong though.

It doesnt matter which non-white players pop in. The fact is they will.

It pointless me debating what is fact.

I'm sure you know a lot more than me about SA cricket. My point is that them talking about a "target" doesn't mean much if they aren't realistically close to achieving it. For all we know, this may just be some political talk that they are spewing while they continue to realize that the black cricketers who are being given early opportunities just won't cut it at the highest level. You should be worried only if **** happens and not if it's supposed to happen, so to speak.