Saqlain Mushtaq vs Anil Kumble

[gunner]

Who is Better?

Here are Both Players Current Stats,
Saqlain obviously has been out of the game for like 5 years now but had he not injured his knee he would have had well over 400/500 wickets and hes still only 29 years old

Saqlain:
class mat balls runs wkts bbi bbm ave econ sr 4 5 10
Tests 49 14070 6206 208 8/164 10/155 29.83 2.64 67.64 12 13 3
ODIs 169 8770 6275 288 5/20 5/20 21.78 4.29 30.45 11 6 0

Kumble:
class mat balls runs wkts bbi bbm ave econ sr 4 5 10
Tests 112 35289 15484 542 10/74 14/149 28.56 2.63 65.10 27 33 8
ODIs 267 14279 10221 331 6/12 6/12 30.87 4.29 43.13 8 2 0

 

[PhoenixFire]

Kumble, nearly always choose a wrist spinner over a finger spinner.

 

[Sanz]

Who is Better?

Here are Both Players Current Stats,
Saqlain obviously has been out of the game for like 5 years now but had he not injured his knee he would have had well over 400/500 wickets and hes still only 29 years old

Saqlain:
class mat balls runs wkts bbi bbm ave econ sr 4 5 10
Tests 49 14070 6206 208 8/164 10/155 29.83 2.64 67.64 12 13 3
ODIs 169 8770 6275 288 5/20 5/20 21.78 4.29 30.45 11 6 0

Kumble:
class mat balls runs wkts bbi bbm ave econ sr 4 5 10
Tests 112 35289 15484 542 10/74 14/149 28.56 2.63 65.10 27 33 8
ODIs 267 14279 10221 331 6/12 6/12 30.87 4.29 43.13 8 2 0

So Saqlain is better test bowler despite Kumble having better overall avg, strike rate, economy. Not to forget the no. of test wickets is 3 times that of Saqlain.

But if it makes you happy, yeah Saqi is a better bowler.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

First off, worth noting that I don't entirely believe that Saqlain is only 29 years old.

Saqlain was undoubted the better ODI bowler. I think we can all agree. Not only was he economical, but he took wickets like a strike bowler.

I consider Saqlain a better Test bowler too, but only marginally. He may have a greater overall average than Kumble, but only marginally there too.
Saqlain averaged 30.11 outside of Pakistan, compared to Anil Kumble's 35.84 outside of India.

Saqlain in:

Pakistan - 77 wickets @ 29.22
Bangladesh - 11 wickets @ 19.90
India - 24 wickets @ 20.95
Sri Lanka - 22 wickets @ 31.54

Total record on the subcontinent: 134 wickets @ 27.28
Total record outside of the subcontinent: 74 wickets @ 34.45

Kumble in:

India: 325 wickets @ 23.71
Bangladesh: 10 wickets @ 14.10
Sri Lanka: 22 wickets @ 42.68
Pakistan: 24 wickets @ 42.41

Total record on the subcontinent: 381 wickets @ 25.73
Total record outside of the subcontinent: 161 wickets @ 35.28

Both bowlers seem extremely evenly matched there. It's a tough call between the two, because each is(/was for Saqlain) undoubtedly a titan in his respective team's bowling attack.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

So Saqlain is better test bowler despite Kumble having better overall avg, strike rate, economy. Not to forget the no. of test wickets is 3 times that of Saqlain.

But if it makes you happy, yeah Saqi is a better bowler.

That's one of the worst arguments I've read in comparing two players. Totally lacking substance.

 

[gunner]

not forgetting the fact that kumble has 2 times asmany matches as saqlain right?

and the standard of batsmen in past 3 years?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

and the standard of batsmen in past 3 years?

That would actually be a pro-Kumble argument.

 

[gunner]

That would actually be a pro-Kumble argument.

not really actually,

there were much better batsman when saqlain played and back then the aussies,indians, and other teams were ten times better than they are now

 

[Matt79]

Kumble - hate finger-spinners tla...

 

[Nishant]

Kumble....a wrist spinner! Plus, he's been around for longer and is still performing

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Saqlain Mushtaq revolutionized modern fingerspin. He's not the average fingerspinner, and to write him off behind Kumble purely because Kumble is a wristspinner is ridiculous. Kumble is barely even a spinner at all most of the time, so I don't see how his wristspin attribute can be used in the argument.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I'm a big Saqlain fan, as it goes. At his peak I thought he was the best twirler outside the big two. For a finger spinner he really gave the cherry a fair rip & turned it a lot more than Kumble does. Actually (and this is not to denegrate Kumble in any way) one could make a legitimate argument that he's a slow-medium bowler who predominantly bowls leg-cutters rather than a leg-spinner per se. Like I said in parenthesis this is not to do him down as one could equally say the same of (say) O'Reilly or Underwood too.

Overall I rate Kumble higher because of the career he's had. After Saqlain's season with Ireland last year I doubt we'll even see him in first-class cricket again, far less the international stage.

 

[marc71178]

Who is Better?

Here are Both Players Current Stats,
Saqlain obviously has been out of the game for like 5 years now but had he not injured his knee he would have had well over 400/500 wickets and hes still only 29 years old

Would he have done though - there's no guarantees.

 

[Anil]

Would he have done though - there's no guarantees.

exactly...saqlain had a fantastic start to his career, he was brilliant against india in india, the benchmark of excellence for a spinner, but the fact is he has faded away since and any assumption that he would've maintained his standards had he played till now is a big one to make and to make that kind of extrapolation and then rate him above kumble who has actually shown that kind of durability and longevity is in my opinion totally unfair...in one dayers, i would rate saqlain above kumble....

 

[aussie]

Saqlain in ODI's, Kumble in Test. But overall Kumble 3rd best spinner of his era.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

exactly...saqlain had a fantastic start to his career, he was brilliant against india in india, the benchmark of excellence for a spinner, but the fact is he has faded away since and any assumption that he would've maintained his standards had he played till now is a big one to make and to make that kind of extrapolation and then rate him above kumble who has actually shown that kind of durability and longevity is in my opinion totally unfair...in one dayers, i would rate saqlain above kumble....

But the question isn't who has the greater legacy or who has accomplished more. The question is who is the better bowler. It's much the same as if someone were to compare Richards to Headley with the question of who was the better batsman.

Of course, it's all about opinion. Just understand what the question is.

 

[Anil]

But the question isn't who has the greater legacy or who has accomplished more. The question is who is the better bowler. It's much the same as if someone were to compare Richards to Headley with the question of who was the better batsman.

Of course, it's all about opinion. Just understand what the question is.

oh i understand what the question is....and better is not just about a single delivery or a single test or a single series or even a single year in test cricket, it encompasses a lot of things including consistency, durability and longevity....you can possibly exclude some of these factors if one person is that significantly better than the other one but that is not the case here...

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

oh i understand what the question is....and better is not just about a single delivery or a single test or a single series or even a single year in test cricket, it encompasses a lot of things including consistency, durability and longevity....you can possibly exclude some of these factors if one person is that significantly better than the other one but that is not the case here...

So does that make Mike Hussey better than Barry Richards?
Is Graeme Pollock better than Barry Richards?
Is Ricky Ponting better than Graeme Pollock?
Is Ricky Ponting better than George Headley?

Due to injuries Saqlain Mushtaq was not able to have the full career that Anil Kumble has. That shouldn't detract from the consideration of his quality as a bowler though.

 

[Anil]

So does that make Mike Hussey better than Barry Richards?
Is Graeme Pollock better than Barry Richards?
Is Ricky Ponting better than Graeme Pollock?
Is Ricky Ponting better than George Headley?

Due to injuries Saqlain Mushtaq was not able to have the full career that Anil Kumble has. That shouldn't detract from the consideration of his quality as a bowler though.

as you said it's all down to opinions... so here's mine:

no
can't say
no
no

where does any of those answers contradict what i say? pollock, richards and headley are all-time greats, ponting might get there one day, hussey is doing great right now, that's it....in my opinion of course....

i never said saqlain wasn't a quality bowler and i am not counting his injuries against him, i just don't count him to be that greater than kumble that having played less than half the number of tests, he can be considered a better bowler....

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

where does any of those answers contradict what i say?.

Look at how many matches they've played.