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Saqlain Mushtaq vs Anil Kumble

who is better?


  • Total voters
    33

nightprowler10

Global Moderator
I find it amazing that everybody except Liam has completely ignored his record against the best players of spin. Anyway, to answer the question, at their peaks I'd take Saqlain over Kumble.
 
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Anil

Hall of Fame Member
I find it amazing that everybody except Liam has completely ignored his record against the best players of spin. Anyway, to answer the question, at their peaks I'd take Saqlain over Kumble.
i acknowledged his exceptional record against india...but i would say that even so, when you consider their whole careers, kumble comes out ahead....if you just consider their peaks, i would say that it's damn close, it would be difficult to pick one over the other....
 

Beleg

International Regular
Kumble. Kumble's longevity made me decide in his favour. There's something to be said about being consistently consistent over a period of 15 years.
 

Perm

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I went for Kumble because Tests>ODI's but in ODI's Saqlain would be the better bowler.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
The fact that you can even play in tests for 15 years for India despite being a very unorthodox spinner means it works in your favor.

But on ability alone, I'd still take Kumble.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
i acknowledged his exceptional record against india...but i would say that even so, when you consider their whole careers, kumble comes out ahead....if you just consider their peaks, i would say that it's damn close, it would be difficult to pick one over the other....
Saqlain doesn't have an exceptional record against India, he averages 28 against India, which is very close to his career avg. Yes did bowl very well in the 1998-99 series in India but Kumble bowled as well as him. Kumble averaged 14 compared to Saqi's 20. in that series.

Lot of factors go in favor of Saqlain, for example he always was part of best fast bowling attacks of 90s.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Actually, Kumble in the 90s was a very good ODI bowler.
Agreed.

My theory is that Kumble has become a better test bowler at the sacrifice of his ODI game because he's added more to his armoury, and that has resulted in greater inaccuracy, which can be critical at his pace in ODIs. But it has improved his record in tests, particularly away, greatly.
 

C_C

International Captain
Actually, it is a fair bit of misrepresentation that Saqlain 'lost out' due to injuries.
Everyone's had to deal with injuries at some point or another in a career thats anything more than 4-5 years in the sunshine.
For someone who's watched Saqlain a fair bit, i can say that at one time, he was an even better bowler than Murali and Warne but ironically, the 'doosra' (or the offie's 'wrong un' ) was the downfall of Saqlain, much like how it is becomming the downfall of Harbhajan.
Unlike Warne or Murali, who are wily enough to use the wrong un/doosra sparingly or disguise it well when using it frequently (ie, Murali), Saqlain became over-reliant on them.
He became so over-reliant on the doosra that watching the last 2-3 years of his international career, you could garantee that he'd bowl atleast two doosras per over.
Moreover, Saqlain's doosra was not disguised as well as Murali's is (in terms of action) and once the difference in his action was 'figured out' ( i'd heard Boycott talk about it in 99 series vs India) his doosra lost potency too. Not to mention, his over-reliance of the doosra affected his conventional offspin significantly too- he started losing accuracy in his offspin and his beautiful flight became a flat, predictable trajectory- i am guessing it'd probably because of him focussing too much on the doosra and not maintaining his practice of the off break in the nets as much.
Overall, Saqlain fell off drastically and injury or no injury, his bowling went from sublime to trash. Saqlain i last saw was against India in Pakistan (and i'd be surprised if he hasn't deteriorated further) and he had fallen far enough to be a less accurate and slightly more crafty version of Chris Gayle with the ball.

To answer the question, Kumble is the superior bowler in tests and quite easily so.
People who compare records blindly, in my opinion, fail to understand the dynamics of the game. Spinners rely a lot more on the psychological aspect than pacers, simply because confidence against a spinner pays much larger dividends than confidence against pacers. This fact is easily demonstrated by comparing really accurate pacers with really accurate spinners : say Pollock and McGrath vs Warne and Murali. The latter duo have been taken apart in their 'off days' considerably more often than the former duo.
Where this confidence comes in, is dependent on the overall bowling attack.
To a spinner, it makes a world of difference if they are comming in at 50/3 or 80/1
Having a good pace attack (and Wasim, Waqar, Akhtar are certainly 'as good as it gets') before a spinner makes a huge difference. Warne's average too bloats up when McGrath isnt present in the lineup. And just comparing the two Ws to Srenath and Prasad is an insult to the two Ws. Enough said. As far as tests go, Kumble is easily superior to Saqlain. In ODIs, i'd take Saqlain as the second alltime spinner (behind Murali) - ie, ahead of not just Kumble but also Warne.
 

haroon510

International 12th Man
i have to agree with c_c
at one time saqi was better than murli and warn
in odi i would pick saqi over kumble but in test if i have to pick one of these bowlers i would go with kumble.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
Actually, it is a fair bit of misrepresentation that Saqlain 'lost out' due to injuries.
It's not so much "lost out" due to his injuries as "effectively had his career ended by" his injuries tho. If we are to believe his age (& I personally don't, but there you go) he should be at his peak as a spinner & is nowhere at all. I saw him bowling once for Ireland in our C&G Trophy (one day) and he did a semi-competent containment job. Sadly, going bu his stats, it was the high-water mark of his season. It's like watching Zidane struggle to play centre-half in the Conference.
 

a massive zebra

International Captain
oh i understand what the question is....and better is not just about a single delivery or a single test or a single series or even a single year in test cricket, it encompasses a lot of things including consistency, durability and longevity....you can possibly exclude some of these factors if one person is that significantly better than the other one but that is not the case here...
One of the best shortish posts on cricketweb for quite a while. Spot on.
 

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