Best Test Captain

[aussie tragic]

Just interested to know who CW think is the best all-time Test Captain?

Some to choose from in order of Win %

1. Ricky Ponting (Aus): 33 Tests, 25W (76%) - 5D (15%) - 3L (9%)
2. Steve Waugh (Aus): 57 Tests, 41W (72%) – 7D (12%) - 9L (12%)
3. Don Bradman (Aus): 24 Tests, 15W (63%) – 6D (25%) – 3L (13%)
4. Lindsay Hassett (Aus): 24 Tests, 14W (58%) – 6D (25%) – 4L (17%)
5. Mike Brearley (Eng): 31 Tests, 18W (58%) – 9D (29%) – 4L (13%)
6. Michael Vaughan (Eng): 33 Tests, 19W (58%) – 8D (24%) – 6L (18%)
7. Bill Woodfull (Aus): 25 Tests, 14W (56%) – 4D (16%) – 7L (28%)
8. Viv Richards (WI): 50 Tests, 27W (54%) – 15D (30%) – 8L (16%)
9. Shaun Pollock (SA): 26 Tests, 14W (54%) – 7D (27%) – 5L (19%)
10. Mark Taylor (Aus): 50 tests, 26W (52%) – 11D (22%) – 13L (26%)

11. Hansie Cronje (SA): 53 Tests, 27W (51%) – 15D (28%) – 11L (21%)
12. Ian Chappell (Aus): 30 Tests, 15W (50%) – 10D (33%) – 5L (17%)
13. Peter May: 41 Tests, 20W (49%) - 11D (27%) – 10L (24%)
14. Clive Lloyd (WI): 74 Tests, 36W (49%) – 26D (35%) – 12L (16%)
15. Wasim Akram (Pak): 25 Tests, 12W (48%) – 5D (20%) – 8L (32%)
16. Len Hutton (Eng): 23 Tests, 11W (48%) – 8D (35%) – 4l (17%)
17. Sanath Jayasuriya (SL): 38 Tests, 18W (47%) – 8D (21%) – 12L (32%)
18. Richie Richardson (WI): 24 tests, 11W (46%) – 7D (29%) – 6L (25%)
19. Greg Chappell (Aus): 48 Tests, 21W (44%) – 14D (29%) – 13L (27%)
20. Richie Benaud (Aus): 28 Tests, 12W (43%) – 11D (39%) – 4L (14%) – 1T (4%)

 

[silentstriker]

"We'll have a bowl mate" notwithstanding....Ponting.

 

[aussie tragic]

I go Steve Waugh, should have been Captain when AB retired IMO (no offence to Mark Taylor).

After SW, I would have to say Mike Brearley, probably the only player in history which made a team for his captaincy alone (cause like all English post-65, he couldn't bat )

 

[PhoenixFire]

Is this the best captain by win % or opinion?

 

[aussie tragic]

Is this the best captain by win % or opinion?

Dissapointed PF, I thought all high schools taught you to read the question, which was "who does CW think was the all-time best Test captain"

I just listed some to pick from in order of Win % (to suck SS into the obvious Ponting vote since his opinion is based on stats alone), while personally I think Steve Waugh, Brearley, Ian Chappell, Imran and Fleming would be 5 of the best from 1970 onwards.

 

[Legga]

Mark Taylor by a mile.
#2 would be Clive Lloyd.
#3 Ian Chappell.
#4 Fleming
#5 Waugh

Ranatunga was a good captain also.

 

[silentstriker]

To reiterate my position. It is not that Ponting was necessarily the best captain, but that there is no objective way to judge field settings and man-motivation, so you are forced to go by results.

 

[PhoenixFire]

Well from what I've heard, Brearley was an excellent man manager, one of the best there was.

 

[Fusion]

I can't chose the best, my opinion keeps changing on that list. However, here are who I think are the best captains IMO (no particular order):

Lloyd
Imran
Taylor
Waugh
Brearley

 

[aussie tragic]

To reiterate my position. It is not that Ponting was necessarily the best captain, but that there is no objective way to judge field settings and man-motivation, so you are forced to go by results.

Again I say, you are far too predictive in picking the "best" by stats alone.

....going back in Aussie history.... AB laid the foundation in turning Australia into the team that it has been for the last 15-years, which IMO is the best of all-time... Mark Taylor took over from Border when the tide was turning and did a fantastic job and then Steve Waugh really capitalised on his experience under both captains to become the most ruthless Aussie captain ever IMO....

Meanwhile, Ponting is a little like Viv Richards in that he inherited a "Great" team from a great Captain (Clive Lloyd) and the jury is still out on whether he is made of the right stuff to be an all-time great captain...I think not

 

[silentstriker]

Again I say, you are far too predictive in picking the "best" by stats alone.

....going back in Aussie history.... AB laid the foundation in turning Australia into the team that it has been for the last 15-years, which IMO is the best of all-time... Mark Taylor took over from Border when the tide was turning and did a fantastic job and then Steve Waugh really capitalised on his experience under both captains to become the most ruthless Aussie captain ever IMO....

Meanwhile, Ponting is a little like Viv Richards in that he inherited a "Great" team from a great Captain (Clive Lloyd) and the jury is still out on whether he is made of the right stuff to be an all-time great captain...I think not

So, tell me, what does he have to do to become 'great'? Win 100% of the time?

 

[PhoenixFire]

SS, you have just proved AT right. He could lose every game and still be the best captain ever. It's the field settings, the bowling changes. It's more than just % of wins.

 

[silentstriker]

SS, you have just proved AT right. He could lose every game and still be the best captain ever. It's the field settings, the bowling changes.

OK, well tell me how I can judge the field setting of a captain who wins all the time. Because whatever field he placed, it obviously worked as the team won...right?

 

[aussie tragic]

So, tell me, what does he have to do to become 'great'? Win 100% of the time?

Let's see how he does without Martyn, Warne & McGrath [and Langer, Hayden & Gilchrist}

 

[PhoenixFire]

OK, well tell me how I can judge the field setting of a captain who wins all the time. Because whatever field he placed, it obviously worked as the team won...right?

But Australia and England have both proved that theory wrong. Not many people would doubt that in 2005 Australia had the better side as far as talent goes, but Ponting captained poorly and Australia lost. This wasn't just down to individual poor performances, but Ponting's captaincy.

 

[Barney Rubble]

Waugh > Brearley > everyone else.

 

[silentstriker]

But Australia and England have both proved that theory wrong. Not many people would doubt that in 2005 Australia had the better side as far as talent goes, but Ponting captained poorly and Australia lost. This wasn't just down to individual poor performances, but Ponting's captaincy.

So basically, he needed to lose 3 less tests and have a loss record of 0%. If he had placed the same field settings but Lee & co. had scored an extra boundry...then what?

 

[silentstriker]

Let's see how he does without Martyn, Warne & McGrath [and Langer, Hayden & Gilchrist}

Thats a completely fair assessment. I'm definitely for judging things like this at the end of the career.

 

[aussie tragic]

Waugh > Brearley > everyone else.

Cool, you agree with me 100%

I go Steve Waugh, should have been Captain when AB retired IMO (no offence to Mark Taylor).

After SW, I would have to say Mike Brearley, probably the only player in history which made a team for his captaincy alone .

 

[Dick Rockett]

This is one of those assessments that it's nearly impossible to make without having extensively watched the captain at work. I will add this though, that I think leading an amazing team is much less challenging than leading an ordinary team, which is why I find it hard to rate Ponting's captaincy. Astute field placements and effective man management aren't as essential when you're captaining players like Warne, McGrath, Hayden, Hussey, etc. Their individual efforts are going to do a lot of the work for you, IMO.

If I was going to choose an Australian captain, I'd go for Border - he had an excellent side, but it was nowhere near as far ahead talent-wise as the current Australian team.

Stephen Fleming is the best captain I've ever seen, but that's mainly because I've watched New Zealand far more often than any other team. He's certainly done a lot to raise this team above where they might normally have been, based on pure talent.