Spinners In South Africa

[Quinton]

The GREAT TOPIC regarding our spinners in South Africa.

Eversince I can remember there has been endless debates and endless comments via the media, via the supporters, and now recently via our selectors that the spinners are not putting there hands up in International or Domestic cricket.

The fact of the matter is, that our spinners are performing in Domestic Cricket, and they are putting their hands up for selection.The likes of Claude Henderson, Johan Botha, Thandi Tshabhala and Paul Harris have bowled well and consistently in both formats of the game(one dayers and four day games).If you take a moment and think of the wickets that we mostly play on in South Africa, you will know that they mainly suit our seamers.Our spinners since readmission have done well.The constant abuse our spinners receive from the media and the selectors are making our situation with looking for a top class spinner more difficult.

As we all know Nicky Boje has now retired from International Cricket due to the inconsistency of his selection and Claude Henderson refuses to play for S.A. even if he is selected.We are forcing our spinners to find alternate passages so that they can apply there trade.There are only two respective countries in my opinion that have spinners who have won games for their teams on a regular basis since the 1990,s and they are the two magicians Shane Warne and Mutthia Muralitharan.

We need to stop looking at other teams riches and concentrate on ours back at home.
Our spinners might not play a BIG ROLE in SA conditions but there is a role for them and when they play in places like the Sub - Continent or Australia or even the West Indies those are the times that they will come to the for.You can also think back and try and think how many times in the past we have have had a lead of over 400 runs going into the last day of a test,you can maybe count it on one hand.We must all remember that pressure plays a major role in taking wickets and the BATSMEN also need to play their part.

Your remarks regarding this topic would be welcome.

Who are our top two spinners in South Africa?

[Langeveldt]

Good post, welcome..

Not sure what to think really, I don't think our spinners in SA are talented enough to demand selection at all, and Boje was slightly out of order for his little tantrum as I don't think anyone who averages around 40 with the ball can be considered an automatic selection..

I think what we need is overseas tuition, rather like Dennis Lillee in India and Terry Jenner in England.. There isn't a home grown culture when it comes to slow bowling so I think we need to import it. I don't think pitches in South Africa are a world away from the wickets in Australia, and we all know what Shane Warne can bowl on.. We just need more kids in schools being encouraged to take it up..

As for the two best spinners in South Africa, Paul Harris and Thandi Tshabalala..

[silentstriker]

Langevedlt is exactly right, also in India for example, if you're a slow bowler about to make it big, you have about 50 ex-spinners who are all very decent and can give you good advice. If you're a pace bowler, there is hardly anyone (enter the MRF Pace Academy run by Lillee). Similar thing has to happen in SA.

[adharcric]

Agree with Langeveldt and SS. Who can South Africa bring in though? For now, I really hope Tshabalala does well.

[archie mac]

Good to see more Sth Afr posters on this site.

Can someone remind please remind me why Claude Henderson won't play even if selected

[vic_orthdox]

Originally Posted by Quindon

There are only two respective countries in my opinion that have spinners who have won games for their teams on a regular basis since the 1990,s and they are the two magicians Shane Warne and Mutthia Muralitharan.

Anil stiff to miss out there.

I think the same still happens in Aus a fair bit - there is all this research into techniques, injury prevention and development of quicks (which is fair enough, because in Australia you'll always have more quicks in your side than spinners) but hardly anything for spin bowlers. Giving greater access to developing players to ex-first class spinners with an attacking mentality is vitally important to their development.

[silentstriker]

A bit harsh on Kumble, considering he's won more games for us than any player (including Dravid, Tendy, etc). In virtually every victory of the last 15 years, home and away, the one common thread has been Kumble.

[silentstriker]

It's so ridiculous that in games won, Kumble averages 18.46 with the ball, whereas he averages 42.10 in losses.

Huuuuge impact.

[brockley]

Paul harris has been selected by south africa,thats the end of his career with warwickshire they will be pi7ssed.

[Jono]

I was a fan of Nicky Boje, for no particular reason to be honest, but I do think his outburst was unnecessary.

Firstly, he hasn't been successful at test level, simple as that. Secondly, when his country has needed him to play in India and be their spinner, he's been unwilling to go for reasons we already know about. But the fact is, he didn't go. Can't blame SA for that.

[Quinton]

Claude has been one of the most consistent spinners in South Africa Domestic Competitions for the passed 6 years and he has never been given a real oppurtunity to represent South Africa.He has a contract with an English County Side and because of him being ignored in the passed I think that has played a role in his decision.

[aussie]

Henderson & Harris are decent options from what i've seen of Henderson in test & Harris on TV is some domestic OD matches.

[TT Boy]

Originally Posted by archie mac

Can someone remind please remind me why Claude Henderson won't play even if selected

Claude is concerned that if he commits to South Africa he will not only lose his county gig with Leicestershire but he has also spoken of the more than faint prospect of playing a couple of tests then being confined back to the scrap heap again. I know Lorgat phoned Henderson to ask him to consider reselection but the guys 34 years old, at least Harris is 28 and the likes of Tyron Pillay and Thandi Tshabalala are still in there early twenties. Henderson regardless of his form was not much cop when he did play for South Africa, bowled well in one day cricket but was about as potent as Nicky Boje at test level. Interesting to see how Harris gets on, not the biggest turner of the ball but like Kumble he does he fair share of batsman with the extra bounce he gets.

[Matt79]

SA should really have offered MacGill some sort of relocation package and incentives to pack his bags and move across the Indian ocean...

If its difficult to get top-flight slow bowling coaches to commit to moving to SA, the board should initiate some kind of scholarship for promising junior spinners to go live in Australia or India and be coached for stints by Jenner or whoever. A bit of investment up front, and it may never be recouped in some instances, but if you want to build a culture and skillsbase, its probably the best way to go about it...

[TT Boy]

Originally Posted by Matt79

SA should really have offered MacGill some sort of relocation package and incentives to pack his bags and move across the Indian ocean...

If its difficult to get top-flight slow bowling coaches to commit to moving to SA, the board should initiate some kind of scholarship for promising junior spinners to go live in Australia or India and be coached for stints by Jenner or whoever. A bit of investment up front, and it may never be recouped in some instances, but if you want to build a culture and skillsbase, its probably the best way to go about it...

Ray Jennings was up on that similar thought, wanted the board or whoever to entice young Indian spinners to South Africa with such 'lucrative' offers.