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Thread: Glen mgrath, the least talented, all time great

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    Glen mgrath, the least talented, all time great

    when i look at glen mgrath, i see nothing in natural talent, well ofcourse hes talented, but nowhere near as naturally talented as other great bowlers in cricket history

    he has a very simpel action, jus great seam position and very good accuracy

    and accuracy is more practice then natural talent

    he has simply got batsmen out by boring the hell outa them through out his career
    its just that he is very patient, really smart and knows his limitations well

    try to change his lenght by charging down the wicket, it wont effect him, he knows the game too well

    so many bowlers these days try to bowl too quick, try to get too much swing, rarely do they jus keep pitching the ball on a perfect lenght
    asif is the only one in world cricket who seems to have the same mentality as mgrath, maybe even pollock

    but staying on topic
    consider wasim akram, this guys jus pure talent, quick, short run up, amazing pace, amazing swing while mgrath has been more then anything a seam bowler

    mgrath has been able to produce minimal swing through his career, yet poepel can argue he is as great if not a greater bowler the wasim, and its a very solid argument.

    all im saying is that, its just amazing, mgrath isnt a guy that jumps out at u, he wouldnt have been picked from the street because he simply would not have stood out, infact, hes the least likely to catch the eye, yet he is the greatest bowler in the world today

    it just goes to show that talent is incredibly overrated in sports it also shows that anyone with a very good know how about the game, a very good work ethic, can make it big,

    and ive been follwing basketball, soccer and american football all my life, theres jus numerous examples of this in every sport. In basketball there is tim duncan, he is the mgrath of basketball and the list goes on and i think its great.

    mgrath is no freak of nature, and he does not do anything spectacular if u look at his wickets on an individual basis, but overall his performaces have been quiet spectacular.
    i hope that asif doenst loose his way when he comes back from his suspension

  2. #2
    International Coach adharcric's Avatar
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    He does do something spectacular - stick to that off-stump line with ridiculous accuracy and make the ball do tricks every once in a while.

    People are too ignorant to realize that bristling pace is not the only form of talent - that's why people wouldn't be all that impressed with a McGrath on the street.

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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Perm's Avatar
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    Right... I think silenstriker could give you a lecture about what is "talent" because we all know McGrath has it, just in a different way.
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    International Coach adharcric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perm
    Right... I think silenstriker could give you a lecture about what is "talent" because we all know McGrath has it, just in a different way.
    More like a whipping, thrashing and beating.


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    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mohammad16
    and accuracy is more practice then natural talent
    Disagree.

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    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    I disagree with the claim that McGrath isn't an example of natural talent, and also that he gets batsmen out by "boring them", really. It's something people say a lot, but if you actually look at the wickets he takes, it's much more than that. Mind you, he does get plenty of wickets through frustrating batsmen, especially on very flat wickets, but mostly he gets them through his incredible control of the seam and ability to prey on a batsman's weaknesses. McGrath has always had the ability to get the ball to do pretty much anything he wants, which is about talent as much as practice and so on, and few other bowlers can match him in that regard.

    A typical McGrath wicket will involve putting the ball in the corridor consistently and forcing the batsmen to play by hitting the seam and moving the ball both ways. You can't leave anything just outside off stump when the bowler can bring it back and bowl you at any time, and you can't safely play any sort of shot at deliveries in that area beacuse of the bounce he gets and the ability he has to move the ball away and catch the edge. While he doesn't swing the ball a mile or bowl at great pace, he's one of the great new ball bowlers for this reason, as seen in his record against the top order in tests, and when the ball gets older he uses his variety and intelligence to find ways to get more wickets, which is where the frustration element can come into play.

    Also, while it's his ability to do these things on any wicket which makes him so consistent, if you put McGrath on a pitch with genuine life in it he's one of the most unplayable bowlers you'll ever see. Check any Lords test he has ever played in for evidence of this. Again, this isn't a matter of practice or consistency, it's an incredible ability to exploit helpful conditions.

    Lastly, McGrath is one of the most varied bowlers you'll ever see. There's basically nothing that he can't do these days, he's even taken fair hauls of wickets with conventional swing, though it's not something he does all that well. He can reverse it both ways when necessary, he has a variety of changes of pace and is one of the few bowlers who takes many wickets in this way in test cricket, and has basically every trick you could want to get batsmen out when Plan A doesn't work. Again, this is about talent as much as anything else. There's very few other bowlers who managed to master every element of seam bowling. The only thing McGrath lacks is pace, and a great deal of that has to do with choice anyway. Even when he was in his mid 20s he didn't bowl at any significant pace, mainly because he had far more success using his height and accuracy than bowling quickly.
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    International Coach adharcric's Avatar
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    Perhaps the only thing he lacks is a deadly yorker, but that wouldn't really help at his pace and he doesn't really need it.

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    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adharcric
    Perhaps the only thing he lacks is a deadly yorker, but that wouldn't really help at his pace and he doesn't really need it.
    He can bowl a decent yorker at the death on ODIs, but he doesn't take many test wickets with them obviously, except for against tail enders.

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    International Regular shortpitched713's Avatar
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    His yorker is not bad really. Its quite effective in the death overs of ODIs as he bowls it quite accurately and doesn't relieve the pressure like many guys with a "hit me" ball. Anyway, nothing like Waqar deadly though.

    Edit: Beat me to it Faaip.

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    International Regular shortpitched713's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mohammad16
    it just goes to show that talent is incredibly overrated in sports it also shows that anyone with a very good know how about the game, a very good work ethic, can make it big,
    Yeah I suppose being 6' 5", and able to hit a two pence consistently at 80+ mph doesn't hurt either.

    Edit: Got to 549. Now everyone should start worshipping me like McGrath.
    Last edited by shortpitched713; 28-11-2006 at 09:13 PM.

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    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Well since you called him superb, you will be spared the full wrath of my fury. However, in all politeness, your post is complete bull**** coated with some more bull**** and wrapped in a thick layer of bull****.

    If you consider talent = being able to move your arm really really quickly, then perhaps he fails by that illustrious definition. But are you going to tell me that sharpshooting isn't a talent? Not everyone can be an elite sharpshooter, because its more than work (though its that too). You have to have a lot talent to be able to hit that line ball after ball, over after over.

    It is ridiculous to suggest that "anyone can make it big." Your point is proven by looking at history and seeing how many people throughout cricket have done it as well as McGrath. Oh wait, thats right, NO ONE HAS. If all of it was hard work, you'd find every other guy in India having a phenomenal strike rate of 51 in a batsman friendly era, and averaging 21 despite the roads that pass for pitches these days.

    If you can take 549 wickets @ 21 over 15 years without a lot of talent, you need to enlighten us all with your secret.
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker
    Well since you called him superb, you will be spared the full wrath of my fury. However, in all politeness, your post is complete bull**** coated with some more bull**** and wrapped in a thick layer of bull****.

    If you consider talent = being able to move your arm really really quickly, then perhaps he fails by that illustrious definition. But are you going to tell me that sharpshooting isn't a talent? Not everyone can be an elite sharpshooter, because its more than work (though its that too). You have to have a lot talent to be able to hit that line ball after ball, over after over.

    It is ridiculous to suggest that "anyone can make it big." Your point is proven by looking at history and seeing how many people throughout cricket have done it as well as McGrath. Oh wait, thats right, NO ONE HAS. If all of it was hard work, you'd find every other guy in India having a phenomenal strike rate of 51 in a batsman friendly era, and averaging 21 despite the roads that pass for pitches these days.

    If you can take 549 wickets @ 21 over 15 years without a lot of talent, you need to enlighten us all with your secret.
    firstly, i was not refering to natural talent as in mental and physical aspects combined, i meant jus phyiscal talent, sorry if i wasnt clear enough, my appologies

    and my point about anyone can mae it big, when i say that i mean u can have average physical talent and u can make it big as long as u work hard in the right direction, and dont tell me u cant cuz ive seen enough examples

    ive seen enough examples of peoepl with amazing physical talent who didnt make it cuz they didnt have the right mindset, and then u see alot of people with inferior physical talent who do make it, because physical talent IS overrated
    these greats, are very smart, way smarter then ur average man, some almost genius like, and thats way more important then natural physical talent.

    im sorry to piss u off, but i dont regret my post, i may not have clearly mentioned physical talent, but on that scale, all of the top 10 maybe even top 15 greatest fastest bowlers of all time had more physical talent then mgrath so he was the least phyiscally talented of the lot

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    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mohammad16
    im sorry to piss u off, but i dont regret my post, i may not have clearly mentioned physical talent, but on that scale, all of the top 10 maybe even top 15 greatest fastest bowlers of all time had more physical talent then mgrath so he was the least phyiscally talented of the lot
    It's like saying a marathon runner isn't as talented as a sprinter.

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    International Coach adharcric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mohammad16
    firstly, i was not refering to natural talent as in mental and physical aspects combined, i meant jus phyiscal talent, sorry if i wasnt clear enough, my appologies

    and my point about anyone can mae it big, when i say that i mean u can have average physical talent and u can make it big as long as u work hard in the right direction, and dont tell me u cant cuz ive seen enough examples

    ive seen enough examples of peoepl with amazing physical talent who didnt make it cuz they didnt have the right mindset, and then u see alot of people with inferior physical talent who do make it, because physical talent IS overrated
    these greats, are very smart, way smarter then ur average man, some almost genius like, and thats way more important then natural physical talent.

    im sorry to piss u off, but i dont regret my post, i may not have clearly mentioned physical talent, but on that scale, all of the top 10 maybe even top 15 greatest fastest bowlers of all time had more physical talent then mgrath so he was the least phyiscally talented of the lot
    McGrath may not rotate his arm at 90+ mph, sprint in to the crease with ferocity or bulge with muscles, but that ability to land that ball on the same spot and make it do whatever he wants it to is definitely physical talent. I try to land the ball on the off-stump every time and I'd say I'm pretty intelligent, but does it matter? No, the reason McGrath can do it and I can't is not because he knows he should do it and I don't ... it's because he can control his arm, body and hand with that level of perfection. That's not mental, it's physical. Mind you, he has the mental side covered as well.
    Last edited by adharcric; 29-11-2006 at 01:00 AM.

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