Arherton and Chappell's post-war Ashes XIs

Poker Boy · 27-11-2006, 07:21 AM

Yesterday in the Sunday Telegraph Mike Atherton and Ian Chappell named their best post-war Ashes XIs - but with a twist. Athers picked hia best post-war Australian team and Ian Chappell did likewise for England. Here's what they came up with:
Ian Chappell's England XI:
Hutton
Boycott
Dexter
Compton
Barrington
Flintoff
Knott
Trueman
Snow
Underwood
Willis
Interesting ommissons - Botham, Laker. Statham, May.
Mike Atherton's Australian XI:
Morris
Slater
G Chappell
Border
Harvey
Gilchrist
Benaud
Lindwall
Warne
Lillee
McGrath
Interesting ommissons: Bradman (Atherton said he was past his best post-war...hmm), Ponting, I Chappell, a couple of Waughs. a sixth batsman, Miller, Jeff Thomson.
Interesting teams with some controversial ommissions...but do you agree with them? And if not who would you have picked?

Matt79 · 27-11-2006, 07:28 AM

Some interesting picks

Mine would be:
ENGLAND
Hutton
Boycott
Dexter
Compton
Vaughan
Botham
Flintoff
Knott
Trueman
Laker
Tyson

AUSTRALIA
Morris
Slater
Ponting
G Chappell
S. Waugh
Miller
Gilchrist
Warne
Lindwall
Lillee
McGrath

I've shown some preference to players who's record in Ashes contests is better than their overall records, or who particularly dominated some Ashes contests, eg Flintoff, Morris, etc. I've left out Bradman purely because it makes the selection process more interesting and gives you two more balanced teams. Obviously if I was being hardnosed about it, he'd be in at Ponting's expense.

bagapath · 27-11-2006, 07:31 AM

England

Hutton *
Boycott
May
Compton
Barrington
Botham
Knott +
Bedser
Truman
Laker
Underwood

Australia

Hayden
Langer
Bradman *
Ponting
G.Chappell
Miller
Gilchrist +
Lindwall
Warne
Lillee
McGrath

silentstriker · 27-11-2006, 07:32 AM

Even if Bradman was past "his" best, his "not so best" was still better than anyone in that lineup (and he still averaged 100+ during that period).

FaaipDeOiad · 27-11-2006, 09:17 AM

I think the issue with Bradman is how you define "post-war". Bradman played post-war, and he was good enough to make a post-war XI, but he was certianly past his best. He almost didn't play in the first Ashes series after the war, much like Hammond, and while he still made heaps of runs he certainly wasn't the batsman he was before. I wouldn't include him in a post-war XI simply because he played the vast majority of his cricket pre-war. Only two years out of an 18 year career afterwards. It'd be like including Malcolm Marshall in a 90s XI, or Wasim Akram in a 2000s XI.

Anyway, my Australian XI:

Morris
Hayden
Ponting
G. Chappell
S. Waugh (c)
Miller
Gilchrist (k)
Davidson
Warne
Lillee
McGrath

Honourable mentions are Border and Lindwall, mainly. Lindwall was probably a better bowler than Davidson, but the batting swings it for me. Ian Chappell and Langer both worthy of consideration as well, and Benaud if a second spinner was needed. The Ponting decision does depend a bit on how highly you rate Ashes performances compared to overall records, as his record against England is merely average, like Hayden for instance, while some lesser players like Slater have awesome Ashes records.

For England, I think Chappelli was pretty close to the right side, though leaving out Botham is a sin.

Hutton
Boycott
Compton
May (c)
Barrington
Botham
Flintoff
Knott (k)
Trueman
Laker
Snow

Honourable mentions are Dexter and Underwood. Tyson had one phenomenal series, but can't really match Trueman, Snow, Bedser, Willis etc for longevity and impact in Ashes series. The presence of both all-rounders gives plenty of batting depth as well as a five man attack. Flintoff and Snow are mostly included based on their Ashes exploits, as their overall records aren't as good as some other candidates, but they dominated against Australia.

Dravid · 27-11-2006, 09:27 AM

It's also interesting Atherton didn't include Ponting. Wonder what his excuse for that was

BoyBrumby · 27-11-2006, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FaaipDeOiad

I Honourable mentions are Border and Lindwall, mainly. Lindwall was probably a better bowler than Davidson, but the batting swings it for me.

Really? Lindwall has a coupla test tons, doesn't he? Hardly a rabbit.

Slater is an interesting pick in Athers's XI. His overall average probably doesn't quite justify his selection, but he generally reserved his best form for us.

FaaipDeOiad · 27-11-2006, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoyBrumby

Really? Lindwall has a coupla test tons, doesn't he? Hardly a rabbit.

Slater is an interesting pick in Athers's XI. His overall average probably doesn't quite justify his selection, but he generally reserved his best form for us.

Fair point about Lindwall actually, though I think Davidson was probably a better batsman overall. Lindwall was really more in the Shane Warne sort of league of bowlers who could bat and would occasionally make a big score, though more consistent. Davidson was closer to an all-rounder and averaged in the 30s in FC cricket IIRC.

Anyway, it could go either way, and both are fine bowlers. Lindwall was a bigger wicket-taker, while Davidson offers some variation as a left-armer.

marc71178 · 27-11-2006, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dravid

It's also interesting Atherton didn't include Ponting. Wonder what his excuse for that was

His 1658 @ 47.37 (mainly against tripe attacks) doesn't compare favourably to the records of others?

chris.hinton · 27-11-2006, 02:01 PM

KP should be in there

archie mac · 27-11-2006, 02:33 PM

No Keith Miller now that is just a joke. I might even award Atherton the Skull this week

Atherton is not that well read when it comes to cricket history, I remember when commentating he did not know who George Lohmann was

Also Mark Waugh had a very good record in Ashes battles.

Chappelli is no fan of Both, so maybe he should have been told to pick Botham and 10 others. Chappelli does know his cricket history, but May had to play I should think

27-11-2006, 07:21 AM	#1 (permalink)
Poker Boy State Vice-Captain Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Kilbirnie, Scotland Posts: 1,105	Arherton and Chappell's post-war Ashes XIs Yesterday in the Sunday Telegraph Mike Atherton and Ian Chappell named their best post-war Ashes XIs - but with a twist. Athers picked hia best post-war Australian team and Ian Chappell did likewise for England. Here's what they came up with: Ian Chappell's England XI: Hutton Boycott Dexter Compton Barrington Flintoff Knott Trueman Snow Underwood Willis Interesting ommissons - Botham, Laker. Statham, May. Mike Atherton's Australian XI: Morris Slater G Chappell Border Harvey Gilchrist Benaud Lindwall Warne Lillee McGrath Interesting ommissons: Bradman (Atherton said he was past his best post-war...hmm), Ponting, I Chappell, a couple of Waughs. a sixth batsman, Miller, Jeff Thomson. Interesting teams with some controversial ommissions...but do you agree with them? And if not who would you have picked? __________________ Ian Botham, Freddie Flintoff, Kevin Pietersen, Brian Laudrup, Gazza and Daniela Hantuchova....a fan of you all FOREVER!!! Can't wait to see Australia field a crap leg-spinner like Hollland or Hohns again..... Congratulations to Daniela Hantuchova on her 3rd career title.... Bob Woolmer 1948-2007..farewell to the best coach England never had... Arise Sir Beefy.... Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble, Grubb...

27-11-2006, 07:31 AM	#3 (permalink)
bagapath International Vice-Captain Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: India Posts: 4,620	England Hutton * Boycott May Compton Barrington Botham Knott + Bedser Truman Laker Underwood Australia Hayden Langer Bradman * Ponting G.Chappell Miller Gilchrist + Lindwall Warne Lillee McGrath Last edited by bagapath; 27-11-2006 at 07:33 AM.

27-11-2006, 09:17 AM	#5 (permalink)
FaaipDeOiad Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Australia Posts: 18,682	I think the issue with Bradman is how you define "post-war". Bradman played post-war, and he was good enough to make a post-war XI, but he was certianly past his best. He almost didn't play in the first Ashes series after the war, much like Hammond, and while he still made heaps of runs he certainly wasn't the batsman he was before. I wouldn't include him in a post-war XI simply because he played the vast majority of his cricket pre-war. Only two years out of an 18 year career afterwards. It'd be like including Malcolm Marshall in a 90s XI, or Wasim Akram in a 2000s XI. Anyway, my Australian XI: Morris Hayden Ponting G. Chappell S. Waugh (c) Miller Gilchrist (k) Davidson Warne Lillee McGrath Honourable mentions are Border and Lindwall, mainly. Lindwall was probably a better bowler than Davidson, but the batting swings it for me. Ian Chappell and Langer both worthy of consideration as well, and Benaud if a second spinner was needed. The Ponting decision does depend a bit on how highly you rate Ashes performances compared to overall records, as his record against England is merely average, like Hayden for instance, while some lesser players like Slater have awesome Ashes records. For England, I think Chappelli was pretty close to the right side, though leaving out Botham is a sin. Hutton Boycott Compton May (c) Barrington Botham Flintoff Knott (k) Trueman Laker Snow Honourable mentions are Dexter and Underwood. Tyson had one phenomenal series, but can't really match Trueman, Snow, Bedser, Willis etc for longevity and impact in Ashes series. The presence of both all-rounders gives plenty of batting depth as well as a five man attack. Flintoff and Snow are mostly included based on their Ashes exploits, as their overall records aren't as good as some other candidates, but they dominated against Australia. __________________ I know a place where a royal flush Can never beat a pair Last edited by FaaipDeOiad; 27-11-2006 at 09:20 AM.

27-11-2006, 02:33 PM	#11 (permalink)
archie mac Cricket Web Staff Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: canberra Australia Posts: 10,668	No Keith Miller now that is just a joke. I might even award Atherton the Skull this week Atherton is not that well read when it comes to cricket history, I remember when commentating he did not know who George Lohmann was Also Mark Waugh had a very good record in Ashes battles. Chappelli is no fan of Both, so maybe he should have been told to pick Botham and 10 others. Chappelli does know his cricket history, but May had to play I should think __________________ You know it makes sense.

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27-11-2006, 09:27 AM	#6 (permalink)
Dravid International Captain Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: New Jersey, United States Posts: 5,096	It's also interesting Atherton didn't include Ponting. Wonder what his excuse for that was

27-11-2006, 02:01 PM	#10 (permalink)
chris.hinton International Regular Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 3,324	KP should be in there

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