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Gambhir or Jaffer???

Nishant

International 12th Man
The recent selection made by the indian board has raised a few eyebrows; Wasim Jaffer in the squad over Gambhir! What's your opinion? I think that its worth giving jaffer a chance, but gambhir seemed to be getting into some sort of form in ODIs.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
I'm of the opinion that, for the most part, those who play Tests should also play ODI's.

I don't buy this 'ODI Specialist' player crap. Very few (Bevan is an exception) people do fantastic in ODI's but badly in tests (and vice versa). Your test team are your most elite players, and they should be the ones playing.
 

adharcric

International Coach
Bad move, but let's give Jaffer a chance to make his case in South Africa.
At least we have a reserve opener in the squad now; Sehwag should have his tail up.
 

adharcric

International Coach
silentstriker said:
I'm of the opinion that, for the most part, those who play Tests should also play ODI's.

I don't buy this 'ODI Specialist' player crap. Very few (Bevan is an exception) people do fantastic in ODI's but badly in tests (and vice versa). Your test team are your most elite players, and they should be the ones playing.
Not really. One-day cricket demands that you rotate the strike efficiently and stroke boundaries regularly. Test cricket demands a certain temperament and the ability to grind it out somewhat. While most good batsmen should be adept in both formats, they are not identical. Also, some players don't do well for reasons that are difficult to explain. You don't keep playing them because they "should be doing well"; you give the chance to someone who "should be doing well" and actually "is doing well".

Anyways, the important part here is that Gambhir is in very good form at the moment. There's no way you can write off Jaffer, but at the moment it's the wrong move.
 
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Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
silentstriker said:
I'm of the opinion that, for the most part, those who play Tests should also play ODI's.

I don't buy this 'ODI Specialist' player crap. Very few (Bevan is an exception) people do fantastic in ODI's but badly in tests (and vice versa). Your test team are your most elite players, and they should be the ones playing.
There's so much wrong with that its ridiculous. So I guess Vaughan deserves to be in England's ODI team hey? Ajay Jadeja, one of India's best ODI players in the 90s should have played test cricket? Robin Singh too? What about Matthew Hoggard, should he be playing ODI cricket for England?

Anyway, clearly Gambhir should have been selected over Jaffer. That crap about SA wickets being more lively so Jaffer would handle it better was stupid considering we're talking about ODIs. Wasn't 434 successfully scored and then chased down in SA a few months ago?
 
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Dravid

International Captain
I'm against it. Jaffer imo should never make his ODI debut agaisnt a team like SAF. India are in bad form right now, instead of bringing in someone who has never played a ODI, bring in someone who has played a few ODI's before, and is in great form in domestic cricket. I'm all in for Jaffer in the Test squad however.
 

Nishant

International 12th Man
I never really saw jaffer as an attacking force. Correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't jaffer the same palyer that struggled to place the ball on the off-side on a regular basis? If that is the case, then surely he should not be playing ODIs. Dravid is a strong leg-side player, but he can play well on the off-side as well.
Gambhir wasn't selected because jaffer was better technically. But, IMO, all Jaffer can do is defend...not score runs as a good pace. If he plays, i hope he proves me wrong, but i somewhat doubt it!
 

R_D

International Debutant
Not very good move by the slectors but i guess we must give Jaffer a chance before totally dismissing him.... it might have been a a better idea to give Jaffer a chance in DLF or even Champs trophy. Whats the point now.... if he fails what are they going to do.. Just go back to Gambhir again ?
India don't have any other series before world cup after this so pretty dumb move by selectors. Gambhir or even a yougster like Uttappa (sp?) would havee been better.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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Wasim Jaffer has done enough to book a run in the Indian team. If the likes of Yuvraj Singh get persisted with in Tests, then surely Jaffer should too.

In his last 7 Tests, Jaffer has played 13 innings with 0 not outs and averages 47.84 Take out his highest score in that period (212) and he averages 34.16.

In his last 7 Tests, Sehwag has played 13 innings with 1 not out and averages 37.66. Take out his highest score in that period (180) and he averages 24.72.

So basically, Jaffer has outperformed India's "number one" opener. So unless it's an argument for Jaffer and Gambhir to open and Sehwag to slip into the middle order, I think Jaffer definitely deserves the go. Gambhir averages 27.63 in his last 7 Tests. He has 3 big scores in Tests to date - 96 v SA, 139 v Ban and 97 v Zim.

In ODIs it's a different story. None of Gambhir, Jaffer or Sehwag look particularly enterprising prospects as ODI openers.
 

Dravid

International Captain
Mr Mxyzptlk said:
Wasim Jaffer has done enough to book a run in the Indian team. If the likes of Yuvraj Singh get persisted with in Tests, then surely Jaffer should too.

In his last 7 Tests, Jaffer has played 13 innings with 0 not outs and averages 47.84 Take out his highest score in that period (212) and he averages 34.16.

In his last 7 Tests, Sehwag has played 13 innings with 1 not out and averages 37.66. Take out his highest score in that period (180) and he averages 24.72.

So basically, Jaffer has outperformed India's "number one" opener. So unless it's an argument for Jaffer and Gambhir to open and Sehwag to slip into the middle order, I think Jaffer definitely deserves the go. Gambhir averages 27.63 in his last 7 Tests. He has 3 big scores in Tests to date - 96 v SA, 139 v Ban and 97 v Zim.

In ODIs it's a different story. None of Gambhir, Jaffer or Sehwag look particularly enterprising prospects as ODI openers.
I don't see how you think Gambhir doesnt look like a good prospect for ODI openers looking at his recent domestic form.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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Dravid said:
I don't see how you think Gambhir doesnt look like a good prospect for ODI openers looking at his recent domestic form.
I haven't been following Indian cricket closely of late, but I remember he scored a ton and a half-century for India Red (?). What kind of form has he been in lately aside from that? <--- Genuine question. Because his career average certainly doesn't reflect anything spectacular.
 

Dravid

International Captain
Mr Mxyzptlk said:
I haven't been following Indian cricket closely of late, but I remember he scored a ton and a half-century for India Red (?). What kind of form has he been in lately aside from that? <--- Genuine question. Because his career average certainly doesn't reflect anything spectacular.
He scored 70 and 84 against Central,

Scored 86 against East Zone in the first and didn't bat in the second inning given they only needed 60 odd runs.

Scored 20 in first inning and 64* in the second inning for Rest of India
 

R_D

International Debutant
Mr Mxyzptlk said:
Wasim Jaffer has done enough to book a run in the Indian team. If the likes of Yuvraj Singh get persisted with in Tests, then surely Jaffer should too.

In his last 7 Tests, Jaffer has played 13 innings with 0 not outs and averages 47.84 Take out his highest score in that period (212) and he averages 34.16.

In his last 7 Tests, Sehwag has played 13 innings with 1 not out and averages 37.66. Take out his highest score in that period (180) and he averages 24.72.

So basically, Jaffer has outperformed India's "number one" opener. So unless it's an argument for Jaffer and Gambhir to open and Sehwag to slip into the middle order, I think Jaffer definitely deserves the go. Gambhir averages 27.63 in his last 7 Tests. He has 3 big scores in Tests to date - 96 v SA, 139 v Ban and 97 v Zim.

In ODIs it's a different story. None of Gambhir, Jaffer or Sehwag look particularly enterprising prospects as ODI openers.
Don't think the topic starter was talking about test matches.... Jaffer would be easily ahead of gambhir in test for now at least.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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Dravid said:
He scored 70 and 84 against Central,

Scored 86 against East Zone in the first and didn't bat in the second inning given they only needed 60 odd runs.

Scored 20 in first inning and 64* in the second inning for Rest of India
Oh, I was talking about OD form. FC form doesn't much relate to one-day internationals. Gambhir has long proven that he can hold the bat in an FC match.

I don't think it's fair to replace Jaffer in the Test team though, so unless Sehwag gets removed from the opener's spot in Tests, Gambhir's only avenue should be in ODIs.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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R_D said:
Don't think the topic starter was talking about test matches.... Jaffer would be easily ahead of gambhir in test for now at least.
I know this. As evidenced by the end of my first post and subsequent posts...
 

Dravid

International Captain
Mr Mxyzptlk said:
Oh, I was talking about OD form. FC form doesn't much relate to one-day internationals. Gambhir has long proven that he can hold the bat in an FC match.

I don't think it's fair to replace Jaffer in the Test team though, so unless Sehwag gets removed from the opener's spot in Tests, Gambhir's only avenue should be in ODIs.
No OD domestic tournament has taken place so far besides the challenger trophy. Don't think you have a choice but to go on Four Day form. Unless you want to go on experience, which Gambhir still has more than Jaffer in ODIs
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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Dravid said:
No OD domestic tournament has taken place so far besides the challenger trophy. Don't think you have a choice but to go on Four Day form. Unless you want to go on experience, which Gambhir still has more than Jaffer in ODIs
But Gambhir hasn't really had much success in ODIs or OD matches. Jaffer has been in form in Tests and has about as mediocre a record as Gambhir in OD cricket. As I said earlier, I wouldn't take either of them.
 

Dravid

International Captain
Mr Mxyzptlk said:
But Gambhir hasn't really had much success in ODIs or OD matches. Jaffer has been in form in Tests and has about as mediocre a record as Gambhir in OD cricket. As I said earlier, I wouldn't take either of them.
Look at the number of OD games Jaffer as played and number of OD Gambhir has played. Gambhir is only a couple of runs behind Jaffer in his avg and he has played more than double the number of OD matches than Jaffer.

And Jaffers Test form hasnt been bad, but India and Jaffer havent played a test since end of June. So you won't select him on his test form because it was almost 5 months ago.

Lets look at Jaffers domestic record for this season and compare it with Gambhir.

In Duleep trophy Jaffer only played one game, got 0 in the first innings, 129 in the second.

Jaffer also played for Rest of India in the Irani trophy and scored 45 in the first inning, and and 25 in the second.

In the Challenger trophy which was the only OD tournament so far this year, Jaffer scored 12 in the first match, and 23 in the second.

I already posted Gambhirs FC record so far this year, and his record in the challenger trophy was 110 in the first match, and 74 in the second match.

Gambhir isnt in bad form and I don't see why he wasnt picked, and why you don't believe he should be in the squad.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Indian List-A stats are to be taken with a pinch of salt. The limited-overs scene here is terrible, with matches played anywhere, on club or college grounds or even hailstormed hillstations. At times, FC stats are just enough, where a batsman can prove himself. Even in limited-overs matches, a few Deodhar or Challenger Trophy stats will be sufficient, but even they're played on odd grounds. The best reference is the A-team average, and Gambhir's average in both forms is over 40.
 

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