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Wasim or McGrath?

Whos Better?

  • McGrath

    Votes: 25 58.1%
  • Wasim

    Votes: 18 41.9%

  • Total voters
    43

Laurrz

International Debutant
yes i know you guys will go... ok not this again!!

but i really thought this was an interesting topic for me anyway...

we all know McGrath has better stats [albeit by 1 or 2 runs better average] however one could say Wasim was more entertaining...which i don't think is relevant anyway...

the Metronome or the Magician?
 

C_C

International Captain
Laurrz said:
yes i know you guys will go... ok not this again!!

but i really thought this was an interesting topic for me anyway...

we all know McGrath has better stats [albeit by 1 or 2 runs better average] however one could say Wasim was more entertaining...which i don't think is relevant anyway...

the Metronome or the Magician?
Depends.
In ODIs, i'd pick Wasim. In tests, it'd have a lot to do with who the other bowlers are.McGrath is a more consistent bowler than Wasim and in general has less bad days at office. But picking a bowler isnt just about who is better bowler - it is about how they'd fit in the bowling attack and what they bring in the picture.
 

archie mac

International Coach
I picked the Pakistan champ. not as consistent but more dangerous and a natural player. Plus if you were picking an all time team, would be good to have a LH quick, in your team.
 

adharcric

International Coach
For an over - Wasim Akram.
For a match - Glenn McGrath.

Again, this is as bowlers. As cricketers, I'd take Wasim over McGrath.
 

Dravid

International Captain
This is a tough one actually. If you want to go on just bowling, I'd say it would be a close battle. But if I was to pick one, I would go for McGrath.
 

adharcric

International Coach
Laurrz said:
why would u want a bowler to bowl only one over? o.O
I had one over left in a test match and I needed someone to get me that final wicket with only six deliveries, I'd take Wasim for his variety and his tendency to attack the stumps.
For an entire match, I'd take McGrath for his consistency and brilliant ability to pick up wickets at regular intervals.
That's what I meant.
 

Laurrz

International Debutant
adharcric said:
I had one over left in a test match and I needed someone to get me that final wicket with only six deliveries, I'd take Wasim for his variety and his tendency to attack the stumps.
For an entire match, I'd take McGrath for his consistency and brilliant ability to pick up wickets at regular intervals.
That's what I meant.
oh ok i see your point.... then again you may want Akhtar rather than McGrath if we're talking about that situation...

anyways what do you guys think of this article and chart?

http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/ci/content/story/222700.html



as you can see, McGrath has the second best perc. of top order wickets and Wasim has the lowest [in that group of elite modern day fast bowlers]
 

nightprowler10

Global Moderator
I think the point of top order wickets has been beaten to death. The fact is that McGrath is clearly better than Akram in this regard if you look at the stats from any point of view. But it is also a fact that McGrath has had some of the best slip fielders (or fielders in general) of the time in his team to help him take those top order wickets, whereas Akram had some of the worst. Make of that what you want.
 
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Laurrz

International Debutant
oh i did't know ppl were talking about that issue.. i just thoguht it was interesting because it shows McGrath is so good against the best batsmen rather than 7-11... even if McGrath had bad slipsman u would expect him to still have the same perc. of top order wickets and same with Akram..
 

C_C

International Captain
Laurrz said:
oh i did't know ppl were talking about that issue.. i just thoguht it was interesting because it shows McGrath is so good against the best batsmen rather than 7-11... even if McGrath had bad slipsman u would expect him to still have the same perc. of top order wickets and same with Akram..
Actually if McGrath didnt have excellent slippers,i'd expect his figures to plumet significantly.
If you notice, Pakistan had fairly poor slippers during Akram's time(and even today) and Akram didnt rely on them to fetch wickets nearly as much as Pidge does. Wasim took a far larger chunk, if not the majority of his wickets by bowling the batsmen or having them trapped lbw. While McGrath unquestionably is the 'edge inducer' master- without hallowed slippers like Taylor, Junior, Warne, etc, i dont see how McGrath would've made up for it- he isnt very successful when bowling at the wicket- simply because he doesnt get the ball to talk nearly as much as Wasim did. Dont get me wrong, McGrath is a great bowler and IMO, better than Wasim in tests- but I'd still pick Wasim for my team over McGrath for the simple reason that Wasim is a superior cricketer and a leftie. Not to mention,he is the dynamic magician as opposed to a metronome maestro like Pidge- a role that Hadlee can fulfill just as well while bringing batting skills several orders of magnitude higher than Glenn.
 

nightprowler10

Global Moderator
Laurrz said:
even if McGrath had bad slipsman u would expect him to still have the same perc. of top order wickets and same with Akram..
You make it sound like a sure thing. 39.5% of McGrath's wickets were caught and 27.1% of them were caught behind. Its pretty obvious he relies on edges for a good amount of his wickets. Had he had bad fielders in the slip cordon, I think his average might be tad bit higher and he may not be as effective against top order batsmen. Akram on the other hand relied heavily on bowling the batsmen out and leg before decisions. Don't get me wrong, he did dismiss 123 batsmen (29.7%) thanks to the fielding, but the number is not quite as high as McGrath's 214 (39.5%).

That said, its impossible to say clearly how McGrath's stats might have shaped up if he didn't have people like Waugh waiting in the slips. For all we know he may have started using more variety in his bowling like Akram to get the batsmen out, but I somehow doubt he would've been as successful as Akram in doing so since Akram's bowling was a lot more explosive in many ways.
 

Laurrz

International Debutant
C_C said:
Actually if McGrath didnt have excellent slippers,i'd expect his figures to plumet significantly.
If you notice, Pakistan had fairly poor slippers during Akram's time(and even today) and Akram didnt rely on them to fetch wickets nearly as much as Pidge does. Wasim took a far larger chunk, if not the majority of his wickets by bowling the batsmen or having them trapped lbw. While McGrath unquestionably is the 'edge inducer' master- without hallowed slippers like Taylor, Junior, Warne, etc, i dont see how McGrath would've made up for it- he isnt very successful when bowling at the wicket- simply because he doesnt get the ball to talk nearly as much as Wasim did. Dont get me wrong, McGrath is a great bowler and IMO, better than Wasim in tests- but I'd still pick Wasim for my team over McGrath for the simple reason that Wasim is a superior cricketer and a leftie. Not to mention,he is the dynamic magician as opposed to a metronome maestro like Pidge- a role that Hadlee can fulfill just as well while bringing batting skills several orders of magnitude higher than Glenn.
hmm yes i see your point..
but if both teams had good slipsmen.. then i think McGrath would be the one..

Wasim is a great cricketer... probably better than Pigeon..but i just think Pigeon had the edge over bowling alone... the top order distributions shows that... he sets out targets and succeeds them more than any other fast bowler..
 

Matt79

Global Moderator
Laurrz said:
oh ok i see your point.... then again you may want Akhtar rather than McGrath if we're talking about that situation...

anyways what do you guys think of this article and chart?

http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/ci/content/story/222700.html



as you can see, McGrath has the second best perc. of top order wickets and Wasim has the lowest [in that group of elite modern day fast bowlers]
Tells us how underrated Fred Trueman and Allan Donald are outside their home countries IMO.
 

nightprowler10

Global Moderator
C_C said:
Wasim took a far larger chunk, if not the majority of his wickets by bowling the batsmen or having them trapped lbw.
More than 50% of his wickets were bowled and leg before.

102 bowled (24.6%)
119 lbw (28.7%)
 

C_C

International Captain
Laurrz said:
hmm yes i see your point..
but if both teams had good slipsmen.. then i think McGrath would be the one..

Wasim is a great cricketer... probably better than Pigeon..but i just think Pigeon had the edge over bowling alone... the top order distributions shows that... he sets out targets and succeeds them more than any other fast bowler..
Actually the top order equation has to also consider another aspect : Just who are they bowling with ?
Warney doesnt come in till the 15th-20th over in tests and quite a few times McGrath has 3-4 wickets before Warney shows up.
In Wasim's case, he had to share the top order wicket right after the first over- first with Imran and then with Waqar.
That clearly has an effect.
It is also another reason why i consider Malcolm Marshall to be the ultimate fast bowler- not only is his record better than almost everyone else outside of ancient history, he snared over 60% of his wickets from the top order, all the while having halcyon bowlers like Holding, Roberts, Garner, Ambrose, Walsh and Bishop to share them with.
 

Laurrz

International Debutant
nightprowler10 said:
You make it sound like a sure thing. 39.5% of McGrath's wickets were caught and 27.1% of them were caught behind. Its pretty obvious he relies on edges for a good amount of his wickets. Had he had bad fielders in the slip cordon, I think his average might be tad bit higher and he may not be as effective against top order batsmen. Akram on the other hand relied heavily on bowling the batsmen out and leg before decisions. Don't get me wrong, he did dismiss 123 batsmen (29.7%) thanks to the fielding, but the number is not quite as high as McGrath's 214 (39.5%).

That said, its impossible to say clearly how McGrath's stats might have shaped up if he didn't have people like Waugh waiting in the slips. For all we know he may have started using more variety in his bowling like Akram to get the batsmen out, but I somehow doubt he would've been as successful as Akram in doing so since Akram's bowling was a lot more explosive in many ways.
i guess we have to acknowledge Australia did have good fieldsmen and that is that... if the slips fieldsmen were average then i would suggest Pigeon would ahve the same amount of success... mayb slightly less.... i guess all we can do is work out with the facts we have or else its just mere speculation
 

nightprowler10

Global Moderator
To be fair, McGrath did have to share his wickets with Gillespie at his peak and then Lee. Of course they are nowhere near the same quality as Imran and Waqar, but still...
 

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