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Best all-round series

bagapath

International Captain
R_D said:
I guess there goes the myth that Imran never performed as an all-rounder in a test series. He either did it with bat or ball.
Special note to Marc.
one 3 test series is no big deal. even kallis pulled it off, that too in a 5 test series.

On an other note, 5 of imran's 6 centuries came in drawn matches. only one came in a winning cause.

Imran in victories:
26 900 117 36.00 1 4 155 8/58 14.50 11 10 0

Imran in drawn games:
45 2250 136 50.00 5 12 138 6/46 30.63 6 13 0

He very rarely contributed with both and ball to lead his team to victory. As a bowler he has devastated so many batting line ups. Almost 6 wickets per test in victories. But when he performed well with the bat his bowling was not so scary. look at his bowling average when he scored those five hundreds and 12 half centuries.

For the record here is botham's record in winning matches:

Botham in victories:
33 1951 149* 43.35 8 7 172 8/34 20.09 15 47 0
 
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silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
aussie tragic said:
Maybe one theory is that he couldn't do both at the same time (i.e. he either had a good series with the bat or ball, but never both) :ph34r:

Anyway, I'm sure SS would be able to enlighten us on why Imran is the only notable allrounder missing from the list, I mean even Shane Warne almost did it with 249 runs and 40 wkts last Ashes :)
Nothing much to enlighten about...Imran played fewer 5-test series than others (I think), and you are right...he usually performed great with the bat and decent with the ball, or decent with the bat and amazing with the ball. In three test series, he frequently did both though.

The thing about him is not that he took over a series with both the bat and the ball, but you can count on him to contribute one way or the other every test.

If you want the criteria of an all rounder to be performance with both the bat and the ball every match/series (not either bat or ball), then Botham (in his prime) would be on top. If you want someone who can contribute with either the bat or the ball every series, then Imran would beat Botham (in his prime).

Slightly different criteria :).

You speak as if I am some Imran-fanboy that refuses to see the truth. Far from it, I would take Botham's peak over Imran's peak. But overall I still say Imran was better.
 
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Poker Boy

State Vice-Captain
I'd go for Botham in '81 because of the rollercoaster ride (remember his pair at Lord's) and where was the support? Only Willis in bowling, and no batsman did well. Gooch and Gower ended up getting dropped, there were even calls (according to my father) for Boycott to be dropped too - and there was no England centuary apart from Botham's two until the last Test when the series was won. Imran in '82 was good for the same reason - if my facts are right Mudassar Nazar was Pakistan's second-best seamer which says it all - and if it wasn't for him they wouldn't have come as close to beating a not-very-good (Willis, Botham Gower and Taylor apart) England team - we had Randall opening in two Tests that series and at Lord's Botham's bowling team mates were Pringle, Jackman Greig (Ian) and Hemmings - as the injured Willis said "a bit of a powderpuff attack"
 

Slifer

International Captain
. Sobers: 5 tests --- 722 runs @ 103.14 --- 20 wkts @ 27.25 --- 1966, WI vs Eng

Easily the best allround series. For goodness sake the man scored over 700 runs and took 20 wkts in England against a pretty good English side (he also took 10 catches for good measure). The difference between his batting and bowling averages is a phenominal 76 runs.
 

aussie tragic

International Captain
silentstriker said:
You speak as if I am some Imran-fanboy that refuses to see the truth. Far from it, I would take Botham's peak over Imran's peak. But overall I still say Imran was better.
Not at all, just referring to your recent prestigous CW "Bradman" and "Boycott" awards :)

btw, didn't you say on another thread that Imran's peak was the "greatest all-rounder peak ever", but above you choose Botham's peak 8-)
 

aussie tragic

International Captain
R_D said:
It would also be interesting to note how many 4 or more test series Imran played in his career compared to some of these players on the list. I'm sure most of them apart from maybe Kapil and hadlee probaly played a fair few more 4 or 5 test series in their career than Imran.
Actually, the news is not good for Imran as he played 7 four-five test series in his career as compared to the following who did achieve 300 runs and 20 wkts:

Hadlee: achieved in 1st series (2 series total)
Greig: acheived in 3rd series (8 series total)
Pollock: achieved in 5th series (8 series total)
Benaud: achieved in 5th series (11 series total)
Botham: achieved in 5th series (13 series total)
Dev: achieved in 5th series (15 series total)
Sobers: achieved in 6th, 8th and 9th series (16 series total)
Miller: achieved in 6th & 10th series (11 series total)
Flintoff: achieved in 6th series (6 series total)
 
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archie mac

International Coach
Just on Imran, I remember he played just as a batsman in a couple of series because of a shin injury:)
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
R_D said:
Now i could be wrong but didn't botham acheive his feet against a 2nd string aussie team ? Due to the kerry packer world series.. alot of first choice players missing.
No. I believe Greg Chappell was injured for that series, but otherwise it was full strength.
 

R_D

International Debutant
FaaipDeOiad said:
No. I believe Greg Chappell was injured for that series, but otherwise it was full strength.
i realised my mistake so i deleted my post but you were too quick for me.
 

aussie tragic

International Captain
The only pre-war players to make 300 runs and take 20 wkts

1. Giffen: 5 tests --- 475 runs @ 52.78 --- 34 wkts @ 24.12 --- 1884-85, Aus vs Eng
2. Faulkner: 5 tests --- 545 runs @ 60.56 --- 29 wkts @ 21.90 --- 1909-10, SA vs Eng
3. Gregory: 5 tests --- 442 runs @ 73.67 --- 23 wkts @ 24.17 --- 1920-21, Aus vs Eng

So that's 15 times in history (only 12 players)
 
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silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
aussie tragic said:
btw, didn't you say on another thread that Imran's peak was the "greatest all-rounder peak ever", but above you choose Botham's peak 8-)
It was - in terms of sustained excellence over an entire decade. In terms of impact on a particular series, it would be Botham. Problem with Botham was that it was in spurts, but when he clicked, he was great and did both (bat + bowl) at an exceptional level at the same time.
 

archie mac

International Coach
FaaipDeOiad said:
Interesting, I never knew that. Why did he?
The 1981 underarm incident had put a lot of strain on his wife and family, and his brother Ian had just split up with his first wife.

Greg's wife was also sick of him being away so much, so the compromise was no more long tours.
 

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