Are some countries better at somethings ?

[SJS]

By the way, Pakistan used to beat India pretty often in boxing in the early years and then the Indian boxers started coming more and more from the Punjab and Haryana (and Rajasthan and tribal) parts of the Indian army and the record got more than straightened.

 

[adharcric]

SJS, you are right in thinking that strong pacemen can be found in Punjab and Haryana. Apart from that, I think they should look in Kashmir as I've heard (from older cousins who grew up playing cricket in the valley) the young Muslim boys there are lightning quick. The villages in Gujarat near the border also seem to be a good source, as seen by Munaf Patel and another Ishwar Chaudhary (new 17-yr-old fast bowler). Then you've got Kerala, a state with a focus on athletics somewhat. That said, not all good fast bowlers need to be especially well-built, but guys like VRV Singh (the only "chunky" Indian fast bowler) and Abid Nabi (quick youngster from Srinagar) are more likely to be found in the areas mentioned above.

 

[SJS]

SJS, you are right in thinking that strong pacemen can be found in Punjab and Haryana. Apart from that, I think they should look in Kashmir as I've heard (from older cousins who grew up playing cricket in the valley) the young Muslim boys there are lightning quick. The villages in Gujarat near the border also seem to be a good source, as seen by Munaf Patel and another Ishwar Chaudhary (new 17-yr-old fast bowler). Then you've got Kerala, a state with a focus on athletics somewhat. That said, not all good fast bowlers need to be especially well-built, but guys like VRV Singh (the only "chunky" Indian fast bowler) and Abid Nabi (quick youngster from Srinagar) are more likely to be found in the areas mentioned above.

I am from Kashmir myself. Kashmir has too distinct type of people. Those like my ancestors who had all the other attributes of fair skin light eyes but were small in built. The dogras and the Pandits are also from the same stock. You see a lot of Muslims of similar built and while I cant say what percentage, they do appear to be a near majority.

But there are a distinctly different people, almost always Muslim, who are very big in bone structure and tall. The Abdullahs (Sheikh Abdullah family) are an example. These guys are really strongly built. Probably they are from an influx from the West across the Hindukush (Afghanistan).

I think BCCI is talking of an investment in Kashmir on an academy.

Gujarat has a huge border with Pakistan and there are mixed stocks here too. BTW, most people dont know this, the Patel's are originally from Punjab who travelled southward many centuries ago (probably following some natural calamity) and settled down in a small area (just seven villages) and these seven villages have given the world some of India's best businessmen who also happen to be totally differently built from the other Gujaratis.

Again, just for interest, the Divechas (Ramesh Divecha's tribe) are from North West Frontier Province (now in Pakistan) who also travelled southward centuries ago and settled down in the coastal town of Diu (hence Divecha). They too look different from native Gujaratis.

 

[silentstriker]

I am from Gujarat and I can tell you for a fact that I am decidedly quick.


No, but SJS, I pretty much agree with all your points. There are somethings we can't control (the number of people > 6'2, 6'3 are always going to be much lower for us).

Biology and diet may prevent us from producing many bowlers like Ambrose, but there is nothing to stop us from producing a shorter version of McGrath (perhaps a bit shorter than McGrath). And I'll tell you what, I'll take a mini-McGrath any day of the week.

Along with Goughy, you are becoming one of my most favorite posters on this board.

Yes, you can die happly now that you have the SS Seal of Approval.

 

[SJS]

Biology and diet may prevent us from producing many bowlers like Ambrose, but there is nothing to stop us from producing a shorter version of McGrath (perhaps a bit shorter than McGrath). And I'll tell you what, I'll take a mini-McGrath any day of the week.

Absolutely !

Make that Kapil and it would still be true.

But you know its not just about how fast you can bowl (the physique required that is) but how much your body can sustain. Even for a Kapil or a McGrath, a strong body is a pre-requisite to the hard work that fast (or medium) bowling demands. Even more so on the sub continent where the work can kill.

 

[silentstriker]

But you know its not just about how fast you can bowl (the physique required that is) but how much your body can sustain. Even for a Kapil or a McGrath, a strong body is a pre-requisite to the hard work that fast (or medium) bowling demands. Even more so on the sub continent where the work can kill.

That is true, though I think that is not as large an issue where biology is concerned. If their bowling action is good, and they stay fit, I don't think there is anything that can stop them from having a decently long career. Especially if they add like 5-6 kg's of muscle. A lot of bowlers I notice are bit of stringy, and though your physique may not be tailored to be a muscle man, you can still prevent injuries by having some bulk.

I mean, you don't need an 18-year Walsh type career, but I don't see any major hinderence to having a decent 8-10 year career.

 

[adharcric]

I am from Kashmir myself. Kashmir has too distinct type of people. Those like my ancestors who had all the other attributes of fair skin light eyes but were small in built. The dogras and the Pandits are also from the same stock. You see a lot of Muslims of similar built and while I cant say what percentage, they do appear to be a near majority.

But there are a distinctly different people, almost always Muslim, who are very big in bone structure and tall. The Abdullahs (Sheikh Abdullah family) are an example. These guys are really strongly built. Probably they are from an influx from the West across the Hindukush (Afghanistan).

I think BCCI is talking of an investment in Kashmir on an academy.

Gujarat has a huge border with Pakistan and there are mixed stocks here too. BTW, most people dont know this, the Patel's are originally from Punjab who travelled southward many centuries ago (probably following some natural calamity) and settled down in a small area (just seven villages) and these seven villages have given the world some of India's best businessmen who also happen to be totally differently built from the other Gujaratis.

Again, just for interest, the Divechas (Ramesh Divecha's tribe) are from North West Frontier Province (now in Pakistan) who also travelled southward centuries ago and settled down in the coastal town of Diu (hence Divecha). They too look different from native Gujaratis.

Good to know, as I am from Kashmir as well (a Pandit), although I was born and raised for six years in Chandigarh. Now it becomes clear why I am a fan of Raina, Nabi, VRV and Yuvraj, amog others. Anyways, you seem to know a lot about these different sects in India. I nominate SJS for a position as the MRF Pace Academy's head geographical talent scout.

 

[Matt52]

I don't know much about the build of people in different parts of the sub continent, but I am a kiwi, and I can tell you that we produce plenty of tall, largely built men. Jacob Oram is 6 ft 7 inches, for example. Chris Cairns was 6,6, and Stephen Fleming is very tall..Its just normal here...BUT, apart from Shane Bond there have been hardly any genuine fast bowlers come out of New Zealand....mostly dribbly medium pacers that bore the opposition into getting out. Richard Hadlee was pretty quick when he was young but I honestly cant think of anyone other than Bond and Hadlee.

So my point is that maybe its not just the build that is important but others factors like the cricketing culture of a place. If your local coach when you where young encourages spin bowling then thats what you might do.

By the way,,,, I remember going to a NZ vs Australia match last year and Brett Lee was one of the smallest guys on the feild. He wasnt tall or strongly built at all. Shane Bond was only average hieght as well.

 

[FRAZ]

I can tell you that we produce plenty of tall, largely built men.

haha

 

[FRAZ]

Related to the topic, but Im not sure what it proves.

Hmm a game called Squash comes in my mind .I as being a sportsman myself found this game as tougher than all the games that I have played . Please check those records also .
Well apart from all the body related sci fi that I have seen which is mostly cannoned towards Pakistan with comparison to India , Well I guess there is a lil difference of population I guess ?????? Hmmm Boxing thing I have read which is utterly rubbish because recent form of Pakistani boxers is actually great with the exception of two boxers (found positive) BUT still boxing is great there . Hmm I feel its quite amusing when comparison is made and when they see nothing much keeps them apart ,which is hilarious because there is another comparison which should be taken under consideration too which is called population .Whenever there has been a competition of hockey then Pakistan is often found to be ahead of India and as far as cricket is concerned then when I see de-grading stuff towards Pakistan then I think that why the balance of win loss is almost 60-40 in favor of Pakistan (which is the greatest mystery ever).......

 

[FRAZ]

I am from Gujarat and I can tell you for a fact that I am decidedly quick.


No, but SJS, I pretty much agree with all your points. There are somethings we can't control (the number of people > 6'2, 6'3 are always going to be much lower for us).

Biology and diet may prevent us from producing many bowlers like Ambrose, but there is nothing to stop us from producing a shorter version of McGrath (perhaps a bit shorter than McGrath). And I'll tell you what, I'll take a mini-McGrath any day of the week.

Along with Goughy, you are becoming one of my most favorite posters on this board.

Yes, you can die happly now that you have the SS Seal of Approval.

I agree with you .. Its the heart that a sportsman needs ... And I have seen the gentleman making a statement far back in the past on CW that Pakistan plays with the Jihadist point of view(or some thing like that) (lololol) ......... Well Indian Elephant is a little smaller and African elephant is a little bigger but the Indian one has far more nutritious diet available in India and African one doesn't know what to eat some times... I don't know why only humans are taken under consideration I guess animals are not bound to avoid meat or whatever .. I agree with you silent striker that some things which have been said here are ......................

 

[Matt79]

I don't think elephants can eat meat even if their faith allows it, but I like your thinking...

 

[FRAZ]

I don't think elephants can eat meat even if their faith allows it, but I like your thinking...

Nope the example was given before that statement but usually the problem that I see in sub-Continent is that they say meat eaters are not healthy and some say meat eaters are healthy bla bla bla . Which is utterly rubbish IMHO ... I was saying that take examples of the elephants , lions or whatever animals available and try to compare them with the same species available some where else in the world ..Indian Animals are smaller than the African counter parts but have almost the same power .......... Size doesn't matter . I think its the size of the heart thingi !!!

 

[SJS]

A few things about the physique aspect.

1. A fast bowler's physique doesnt have to be a very tall man. Most of the great fast bowlers have not been beenstalks. A decent height and a strong body with strong legs and most importantly powerful shoulders and upper torso are generally are very good physical attributes.

BUT these alone dont make a fast bowler out of you.

2. When we talk India and Pakistan and the difference in physique, its not really about India and Pakistan but the different , completely different, people that inhabit the Indian subcontinent. Even within India the same would apply from region to region.

3. People tend to forget that the very rigid caste system which has been prevalent in anongst the Hindus (the majority) made inter caste (and sub caste, and sub-sub-caste) marriages virtually non-existent for thousands of years and the separation of genes between communities in India is far more pronounced and deeply ingrained than most people seem to understand.

4. The diet is normally associated with the community and also region/religion and over a long period of time would make a differnce.

For those who think physical attributes and races do not make any difference I am not going to spend more time here than I have already done. Any serious student of how different sports have different 'peoples' performing 'overal' better would need no elaboration on this. Those who think it is humbug are most welcome to think so.

 

[SJS]

As for Fraz, of course a large heart matters, as it does in many other things. And so do skill and talent and training.

Who said a good physique, a particular diet a particular ancestry and a home in wet wet England or in Ozland will make a fast bowler out of you?

We are talking of the RELATIVE handicap of those with just a HUGE heart but a physique of a diabetic from Somalia, the diet of a Jain anorexic and living at the North Pole with penguins as parents.

 

[FRAZ]

As for Fraz, of course a large heart matters, as it does in many other things. And so do skill and talent and training.

Who said a good physique, a particular diet a particular ancestry and a home in wet wet England or in Ozland will make a fast bowler out of you?

We are talking of the RELATIVE handicap of those with just a HUGE heart but a physique of a diabetic from Somalia, the diet of a Jain anorexic and living at the North Pole with penguins as parents.

Well that Somalia example is a little too much I guess . Well I have beaten some guys in Kabbadi and wrestling who were way bigger and way more built than me ... I am saying that the things are over-explained some times ... Somalia example is just too much please ..... I have been eating a lot of meat recently and I have been on this protein shake last month and I feel the size of my heart and fighting ability to be the same when I was in my normal routine

 

[SJS]

Well that Somalia example is a little too much I guess . Well I have beaten some guys in Kabbadi and wrestling who were way bigger and way more built than me ... I am saying that the things are over-explained some times ... Somalia example is just too much please ..... I have been eating a lot of meat recently and I have been on this protein shake last month and I feel the size of my heart and fighting ability to be the same when I was in my normal routine

I am afraid I have nothing more to add Fraz without repeating myself which I hate doing

 

[FRAZ]

I am afraid I have nothing more to add Fraz without repeating myself which I hate doing

But still Somalian example is way too much ..hehe !!! I mean diseases , injuries and other things also count other than heart .. anyways !!

 

[SJS]

But still Somalian example is way too much ..hehe !!! I mean diseases , injuries and other things also count other than heart .. anyways !!

Fraz my dear, when someone is making an attempt at being sarcastic/ironic/funny (even in a way that doesnt appeal to you) never clutch at the words. Try and see what is being said behind the obvious exaggeration.

 

[FRAZ]

By the way people often forget some times that Pakistan is way better than many other countries in producing fast bowlers . Well I know that Windians were there but Pakistan was also not that far behind and I guess Pakistan would have squeezed in that list but anyways !!!