Damien Martyn

Prince EWS · 18-09-2006, 04:44 PM

I'm still convinced that he's the best option for the #4 spot in test matches, but as far as ODIs go, I think he should be getting the chop.

Many point to his experience, his good record and consistency. But the fact of the matter is, he ALWAYS bats in the top 4, and hasn't scored an ODI century since 2003. His supposed good record has seen his batting average now drop below 40 - below Hayden's whose ODI career was ended for never cementing his place as a permanent ODI player.

Since the Ashes, when he was dumped from the test side, he has often looked lazy in his dismissals - something you don't want from a specialist #4 batsman. He has averaged 25.29 in ODIs in this period..

Now this would all be understandable if he was an up-and-coming prospect with a future, but Damien Martyn hasn't done anything significant in ODIs for quite some time, and he is supposed to be the experienced, finished article used to patiently get Australia through tough periods.

People whinge about Katich at the top of the order, but Martyn has scored at a similar rate while batting #4 at a much worse average.

ODI batting averages since the end of the Ashes:

Code:

Mike Hussey       73.16
Andrew Symonds    48.44
Ricky Ponting     47.28
Michael Clarke    44.89
Simon Katich      41.13
Adam Gilchrist    39.59
Shane Watson      34.66
Brad Haddin       30.60
James Hopes       28.00
Brett Lee         26.28
Damien Martyn     25.29

aussie · 18-09-2006, 05:13 PM

good point, he doesn't warrant a place in the ODI side anymore really since they are better options ATM.

But as the case with Gillespie in the ashes last year Martyn is persisted with in the ODI team for his solid performances in the past & they may not drop him that quickly. Hopefully they don't make that same mistake with him, let him worry with test cricket since if he can show form could be real good for Australia in the transition period post 2007 world cup..

Alysum · 18-09-2006, 05:46 PM

I'm a fervent admirator of Martyn and while I'm really happy he made it back into the test, I agree there are probably better players to take his #4 in ODI. I suppose they are sticking with him because of his experience and great friendship with the players (Ponting, Clarke...) also he made that flamboyant 94 in that twenty/20 early this year, suppose they are hoping for a repeat.

adharcric · 18-09-2006, 05:59 PM

Not only is Martyn not good enough to be in the Aussie one-day side anymore, but he's also not required. Ponting, Clarke, Symonds and Hussey are all world-class one-day batsmen, each of them undroppable. The final spot goes to Watson for his all-round skills; besides, his batting's been better than Martyn's in ODIs since the Ashes so it's an easy pick.

In tests, Australia still need him for his experience and talent. Clarke isn't quite there yet and Jaques is very new, while Hodge is out of favor for reasons that you all would probably know better.

In other news, Stuart Clark's hopes of being a one-day regular are probably dead now. Bracken is clearly ahead of him and Johnson might just be ahead of both of them now as he probably doesn't need to open the attack to be at his best.

Alysum · 18-09-2006, 06:53 PM

I don't think Clark should be in any aussie team at all. His 9 wickets on debut in SA was thanks to a wonderful wicket. And yes bracken is pretty impressive in ODI, should be a permanent paceman alongside Lee and Bracken. Me thinks he could also make the test side this summer ahead of Clark and Gillespie. A leftie swinger is also a good variation from Lee's pace and McGrath's accuracy.

adharcric · 18-09-2006, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alysum

And yes bracken is pretty impressive in ODI, should be a permanent paceman alongside Lee and Bracken. Me thinks he could also make the test side this summer ahead of Clark and Gillespie. A leftie swinger is also a good variation from Lee's pace and McGrath's accuracy.

You talking about Bracken or Johnson there?

Alysum · 18-09-2006, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adharcric

You talking about Bracken or Johnson there?

For test side? Bracken, he's got more experience and deserver more chances in the test side when they aren't using MacGill.

Jono · 18-09-2006, 10:42 PM

His previous average exaggerated how good a ODI batsman he was IMO. Was never a mid-40s batsman.

Prince EWS · 18-09-2006, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jono

His previous average exaggerated how good a ODI batsman he was IMO. Was never a mid-40s batsman.

Well since the Ashes, he hasn't even had his precious average. His career average is now below 40 and his average over the last year and a bit has been in the mid twenties. He really shouldn't be in the side.

Jono · 18-09-2006, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince EWS

Well since the Ashes, he hasn't even had his precious average. His career average is now below 40 and his average over the last year and a bit has been in the mid twenties. He really shouldn't be in the side.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all. Rather I'm saying Marto's previous ODI reputation, which has kept him in the team for this long, was misleading in the first place.

BoyBrumby · 19-09-2006, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince EWS

Many point to his experience, his good record and consistency. But the fact of the matter is, he ALWAYS bats in the top 4, and hasn't scored an ODI century since 2003.

I agree with your sentiments about Martyn, but until yesterday Hussey hadn't scored one ever! In ODIs centuries are necessarily the be-all-and-end-all. Graham Thorpe never scored one at all & we'd kill for him in our middle order now.

Linda · 19-09-2006, 02:10 AM

Agreed, tbh.

Prince EWS · 19-09-2006, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoyBrumby

I agree with your sentiments about Martyn, but until yesterday Hussey hadn't scored one ever! In ODIs centuries are necessarily the be-all-and-end-all. Graham Thorpe never scored one at all & we'd kill for him in our middle order now.

Yes, but Hussey bats at 7 so it's a significantly different case.

Thorpe mantained a good average over a long period. Martyn's performances over the last year or so, as was demonstated by the stats I provided at the end of my post, have been decidedly poor.

age_master · 19-09-2006, 02:50 AM

hmm

Gilchrist
Hayden
Ponting
Symonds
Clarke
Hussey
Haddin
Hogg
Lee
Bracken
McGrath

Johnson in for Haddin if they want another specialist bowler. Cosgrove the reserve batsman.

FaaipDeOiad · 19-09-2006, 03:15 AM

Er, Watson? The guy averages nearly 40 with the bat and around 20 with the ball since the Ashes, and is improving consistently from series to series. In the last three matches he has managed the best innings AND the best bowling spell of his international career. You can hardly drop him now.

Gilchrist
Katich
Ponting
Watson
Symonds
Clarke
Hussey
Hogg
Lee
Bracken
McGrath

That is obviously our strongest ODI lineup. Four quality specialist bowlers and two other useful options in Watson and Symonds, specialist bats all the way down to 7 and a couple of useful guys in Hogg and Lee for support. Some brilliant fieldsmen too, with Ponting, Symonds, Clarke and Hussey in there.

The only possible changes to the lineup at the moment would be Johnson putting some pressure on Bracken and Jaques and Hayden on Katich.

18-09-2006, 04:44 PM	#1 (permalink)
Prince EWS Global Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New South Wales Posts: 37,757	Damien Martyn I'm still convinced that he's the best option for the #4 spot in test matches, but as far as ODIs go, I think he should be getting the chop. Many point to his experience, his good record and consistency. But the fact of the matter is, he ALWAYS bats in the top 4, and hasn't scored an ODI century since 2003. His supposed good record has seen his batting average now drop below 40 - below Hayden's whose ODI career was ended for never cementing his place as a permanent ODI player. Since the Ashes, when he was dumped from the test side, he has often looked lazy in his dismissals - something you don't want from a specialist #4 batsman. He has averaged 25.29 in ODIs in this period.. Now this would all be understandable if he was an up-and-coming prospect with a future, but Damien Martyn hasn't done anything significant in ODIs for quite some time, and he is supposed to be the experienced, finished article used to patiently get Australia through tough periods. People whinge about Katich at the top of the order, but Martyn has scored at a similar rate while batting #4 at a much worse average. ODI batting averages since the end of the Ashes: Code: Mike Hussey 73.16 Andrew Symonds 48.44 Ricky Ponting 47.28 Michael Clarke 44.89 Simon Katich 41.13 Adam Gilchrist 39.59 Shane Watson 34.66 Brad Haddin 30.60 James Hopes 28.00 Brett Lee 26.28 Damien Martyn 25.29 __________________ ~ Cribbage

19-09-2006, 02:10 AM	#12 (permalink)
Linda International Vice-Captain Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Perth, West Aus Posts: 4,705	Agreed, tbh. __________________ "I know I underperformed but after the past 18 months I thought I might have received more than four Test matches' grace." - DR Martyn. "Is there any way to make it longer?" Peter English on Twenty20 Official Face of the v. hip 'Twenty20 Is Boring Society'

19-09-2006, 02:50 AM	#14 (permalink)
age_master Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia Posts: 15,777	hmm Gilchrist Hayden Ponting Symonds Clarke Hussey Haddin Hogg Lee Bracken McGrath Johnson in for Haddin if they want another specialist bowler. Cosgrove the reserve batsman. __________________ Member of CW Green Kerry O'Keefe - Worlds funniest Commentator

19-09-2006, 03:15 AM	#15 (permalink)
FaaipDeOiad Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Australia Posts: 18,682	Er, Watson? The guy averages nearly 40 with the bat and around 20 with the ball since the Ashes, and is improving consistently from series to series. In the last three matches he has managed the best innings AND the best bowling spell of his international career. You can hardly drop him now. Gilchrist Katich Ponting Watson Symonds Clarke Hussey Hogg Lee Bracken McGrath That is obviously our strongest ODI lineup. Four quality specialist bowlers and two other useful options in Watson and Symonds, specialist bats all the way down to 7 and a couple of useful guys in Hogg and Lee for support. Some brilliant fieldsmen too, with Ponting, Symonds, Clarke and Hussey in there. The only possible changes to the lineup at the moment would be Johnson putting some pressure on Bracken and Jaques and Hayden on Katich. __________________ I know a place where a royal flush Can never beat a pair

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18-09-2006, 05:13 PM	#2 (permalink)
aussie Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Cricket Posts: 16,845	good point, he doesn't warrant a place in the ODI side anymore really since they are better options ATM. But as the case with Gillespie in the ashes last year Martyn is persisted with in the ODI team for his solid performances in the past & they may not drop him that quickly. Hopefully they don't make that same mistake with him, let him worry with test cricket since if he can show form could be real good for Australia in the transition period post 2007 world cup..

18-09-2006, 05:46 PM	#3 (permalink)
Alysum U19 Debutant Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sydney Posts: 348	I'm a fervent admirator of Martyn and while I'm really happy he made it back into the test, I agree there are probably better players to take his #4 in ODI. I suppose they are sticking with him because of his experience and great friendship with the players (Ponting, Clarke...) also he made that flamboyant 94 in that twenty/20 early this year, suppose they are hoping for a repeat.

18-09-2006, 05:59 PM	#4 (permalink)
adharcric International Coach Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: San Francisco, California Posts: 10,898	Not only is Martyn not good enough to be in the Aussie one-day side anymore, but he's also not required. Ponting, Clarke, Symonds and Hussey are all world-class one-day batsmen, each of them undroppable. The final spot goes to Watson for his all-round skills; besides, his batting's been better than Martyn's in ODIs since the Ashes so it's an easy pick. In tests, Australia still need him for his experience and talent. Clarke isn't quite there yet and Jaques is very new, while Hodge is out of favor for reasons that you all would probably know better. In other news, Stuart Clark's hopes of being a one-day regular are probably dead now. Bracken is clearly ahead of him and Johnson might just be ahead of both of them now as he probably doesn't need to open the attack to be at his best.

18-09-2006, 06:53 PM	#5 (permalink)
Alysum U19 Debutant Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sydney Posts: 348	I don't think Clark should be in any aussie team at all. His 9 wickets on debut in SA was thanks to a wonderful wicket. And yes bracken is pretty impressive in ODI, should be a permanent paceman alongside Lee and Bracken. Me thinks he could also make the test side this summer ahead of Clark and Gillespie. A leftie swinger is also a good variation from Lee's pace and McGrath's accuracy.

18-09-2006, 10:42 PM	#8 (permalink)
Jono Request Your Custom Title Now! Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Virat Kohli Posts: 47,518	His previous average exaggerated how good a ODI batsman he was IMO. Was never a mid-40s batsman.

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