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Is Adam Gilchrist an overrated test batsman ?

tooextracool

International Coach
Clapo said:
Yes since the ashes he hasn't been at his best... and i think it would be a fair argument to say that a tremendous workload is a rather large contributer to that! But the past must count for something, and to average 50+ with an 80+ s/r for 69 test matches (before ashes 2005) is a pretty compelling argument!
i think gilly is a good batsman, but i dont think hes as great as hes made out to be. His weakness against spin has long been mentioned, and his record against spin is not exactly brilliant. Certainly if he ends up not working out this weakness of his, one must assume that like Hayden he got away with being successful by playing against ordinary bowling attacks.

Clapo said:
It strikes me as a little odd that the concept of Gilly being overrated as a Batsmen has only come up since he has been in a bad run of form???
i dont think so. ive never really rated his abilities against spin, infact i predicted before the series in SL that he wouldnt get past 50 in any one of his innings(unfortunately though he did in one innings-got a 144 in the 2nd innings of the 2nd test and saved face).
 

Gajanayake

School Boy/Girl Captain
FaaipDeOiad said:
Parore and Taibu are fair calls, the rest aren't. Boucher in particular is ridiculous. Gilchrist is leagues clear of Boucher as a keeper. Boucher is a woeful keeper to spin, while Gilchrist is top class, and Gilchrist doesn't make any more errors off the seamers than Boucher does.

Gilchrist's batting certainly helped him break into the test side, but that's really irrelevant to how well he has kept once he has actually been in it.
Nayan Mongia was quite easily a better keeper than Adam Gilchrist
 

Johnners

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
tooextracool said:
i think gilly is a good batsman, but i dont think hes as great as hes made out to be. His weakness against spin has long been mentioned, and his record against spin is not exactly brilliant. Certainly if he ends up not working out this weakness of his, one must assume that like Hayden he got away with being successful by playing against ordinary bowling attacks.


i dont think so. ive never really rated his abilities against spin, infact i predicted before the series in SL that he wouldnt get past 50 in any one of his innings(unfortunately though he did in one innings-got a 144 in the 2nd innings of the 2nd test and saved face).
Whilst i admit gilly doesn't have the greatest record against Spin, he does has 3 centuries in 4 tours of India & Bangladesh. Not bad at all bad for someone who's supposed weakness is spin.

In any case, each to their own, even if some think he is a little overrated, as long as he keeps belting out the quickfire 50's to add to the top work from Punter i don't care at all :)
 

Anil

Hall of Fame Member
Clapo said:
Whilst i admit gilly doesn't have the greatest record against Spin, he does has 3 centuries in 4 tours of India & Bangladesh. Not bad at all bad for someone who's supposed weakness is spin.

In any case, each to their own, even if some think he is a little overrated, as long as he keeps belting out the quickfire 50's to add to the top work from Punter i don't care at all :)
and when did that become a denominator of greatness against spin?
 

Johnners

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
It didn't, but the fact remains that their spinners bowled like they were men possessed (especially rafique) in that 1st test match...Gilly stood up to it, my point being, he outplayed the rest of the australian line-up on a spinning wicket.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Clapo said:
Whilst i admit gilly doesn't have the greatest record against Spin, he does has 3 centuries in 4 tours of India & Bangladesh. Not bad at all bad for someone who's supposed weakness is spin.
I dont think Bangladesh really deserves to be counted as a place for quality spin bowling. Rafique while not amongst the worst spinners around, is still pretty poor compared to most left armers in the world.
As far as Gilchrist is concerned, he may have multiple centuries against India and SL, but his record both home and away against both teams is very ordinary indeed, and definetly significantly poorer than his overall record.
 

Jason_M

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
He's an excellent striker of the ball but he's not a true batsman, you're right to say that he hasn't come up against quality bowling and he's played most of his test cricket on flat tracks. I'll compare him to say Lara, whereas Lara can play aggressively he still manages to play proper cricket shots, but when Gilchrist plays aggressively he looks like he's playing baseball, just slapping the ball around.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Jason_M said:
he hasn't come up against quality bowling and he's played most of his test cricket on flat tracks.
Thats an amazing statement. Lets just examine it a bit closely.

In another thread, I expressed surprise that majority on CW preferred Ponting before Lara and Tendulkar as a batsman (the context was the world test XI 1986-2006).

Of course its not my case that Ponting is anything but a champion batsman.

But what kind of wickets has PONTING played on and against what type of attacks??

Gilchrist made his debut on 5th Nov 1999. Since then Ponting has played in 77 test matches. Gilchrist has played in ALL of them.

Ponting has a fantastic record in the last 7 years and averages 63.7 in these 77 test matches. Gilchrist doesnt have as great a record as ponting (if he had we could probably call him the greatest all rounder ever in the history of the game ??), but still has a batting average of 50.8 in the same 77 games !!
EVERYONE of the matches Ponting has played for last seven years and built his HUGE reputation as a batsman mind you.

SO. Either Ponting has played only on flat tracks and against weak bowling sides and does not desewrve the accolades so easily showered upon him, OR Gilchrist is a batsman of more than a little merit.

I suggest it is the latter.

I sympathise with those who think Gilchrist has always batted on flat tracks and against ordinary bowling. I think I understand that feeling. Gilchrist makes most wickets look so easy to bat on and most bowlers in the world little more than mere trundlers.

PS : Yes I know he has had a few failures (as if that was a crime for someomne with such a tremendous record) but may I remind of a team called India and an Australian batsman of below average height and his batting record against them when on tour.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
SJS said:
Thats an amazing statement. Lets just examine it a bit closely.

In another thread, I expressed surprise that majority on CW preferred Ponting before Lara and Tendulkar as a batsman (the context was the world test XI 1986-2006).
No they didn't, they voted Ponting over Sachin and Lara at #3 in the XI. Have a poll of best batsman since 1990 and I bet you'll have one of those two win.
 

Matt79

Global Moderator
Can he be over-rated when it appears a significant number of people around here don't rate him at all? :)
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Jono said:
No they didn't, they voted Ponting over Sachin and Lara at #3 in the XI. Have a poll of best batsman since 1990 and I bet you'll have one of those two win.
Yes I realise that but Lara has batted at 3 and also if we have a great player like Lara who just HAS to switch positions since the team he plays for needs him for EVERYTHING, its no reason to believe he wouldnt succeed at ANY of those positions.

If it was going to be purely a mathematical excercise of who has the best stats at each batting order why have a poll, there can be only one result.
 
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SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Jono said:
No they didn't, they voted Ponting over Sachin and Lara at #3 in the XI. Have a poll of best batsman since 1990 and I bet you'll have one of those two win.
In any event, if Ponting IS the best number three in the world for last twenty years (and number three is by far the most critical position in the order) my comparison of Gilchrist with him is still valid which is what my post was all about in the first place :)

I mentioned the other thread just to emphasise how high Ponting is rated. Take away the reference to Sachin and Lara and the argument is still EXACTLY the same.:)
 

PhoenixFire

International Coach
Read is the best wicketkeeper in the world at the moment, and Gilly is probably the best Keeper Batsman at the moment. Who knows what Taibu would have grown to be if he had grown up in AUS?
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
PhoenixFire said:
Read is the best wicketkeeper in the world at the moment, and Gilly is probably the best Keeper Batsman at the moment. Who knows what Taibu would have grown to be if he had grown up in AUS?
Based on what?
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Jono said:
No they didn't, they voted Ponting over Sachin and Lara at #3 in the XI. Have a poll of best batsman since 1990 and I bet you'll have one of those two win.
despite the fact that Dravid beats all 3 of them hands down. Says a lot about the accuracy of these polls IMO. Pick the player whos played against the worst attacks and failed miserably against the best of spinners away from home.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
PhoenixFire said:
My opinion :dry:
Not allowed to have those here. You drop them at the CW door along with your coat and shoes.

Yeah you were wondering what that smell was?
 

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