silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
C_C said:
Its ludicrous to include Dravid in the 'big three' but not Ponting. Why do you say that?
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Best #3 between 1986-2006 (Preliminary Vote)
- Thread starter aussie tragic
- Start date
Its ludicrous to include Dravid in the 'big three' but not Ponting. Why do you say that?
JBH001
International Regular
I have to disagree with that. I believe the no. 3 bastman should be aggressive (and technically sound) because when they come in, after the openers have given the team a start, they should really seek to exert dominance over the opposing bowlers. A good attacking knock from a no.3 after a good opening stand really sets the tone for the rest of the batting to follow. A good start is wasted if a defensive batsman comes in at 3.silentstriker said:
IMO, the best position for defensive batsman is the no. 5 position where they have plenty of time to play themselves in, and know if they are required to carry out a rescue act. Dravid I believe, though technically fantastic, is not aggressive or dominant enough to be a no. 3 for the ages, or for the last 20 years. He is however, well equipped to be a great no. 5 batsman.
Therefore the choice comes to Lara vs Ponting.
I admire Ponting immensely, he is one of the finest batsman I have seen over the last 20 years I have been watching cricket - and in recent years captaincy and marriage have only made him better and better. However that is balanced by the fact that he has made this surge at a time of paucity where bowling resources are concerned. Post 2001 I can think of only 1 great fast bowler other than McGrath, and that is Pollock, and 2 great spin bowlers other than Warne, namely Murali and Kumble. And yet, watching him bat you know he would be able to handle Walsh, Ambrose, Waqar, Wasim, Donald etc.
Lara though, is Lara. Faced everyone in the 90s and in judging this we should not allow his age and recent decline to affect our judgement too much. But he is terribly inconsistent, and is another left hander. I dislike the idea of 3 lefties at the top of the order.
Choices, choices...
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
I guess there is a difference in outlook. As an Indian, I assume the openers have failed so no#3 needs to consolidate and dig in for the long while and support the other batsman.JBH001 said:
You assume they succeeded and you need him to start dominating.
Ah, I guess it comes with following Indian batting.
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
Alysum said:
People have smashed a lot of Bardmans' records, and Sobers', it does not necessarily make them better.
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Mister Wright
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I was tempted to go for Lara, but Ponting's figures are just too good at number 3.
I voted Ponting, because I think Lara is a nr. 4 batsman (and he will get my vote for that position).
That leaves a direct face-off between Ponting and Dravid, which Ponting takes by a kitten's whisker. Tough on Dravid, who won't find a place in the lower middle order I'm afraid (as Tendulkar and Lara will probably take 4 and 5 and Kallis' bowling may net him nr. 6)
That leaves a direct face-off between Ponting and Dravid, which Ponting takes by a kitten's whisker. Tough on Dravid, who won't find a place in the lower middle order I'm afraid (as Tendulkar and Lara will probably take 4 and 5 and Kallis' bowling may net him nr. 6)
aussie tragic
International Captain
Better than Boonie and Andrew Jones with onemarc71178 said:
bagapath
International Captain
i am totally with aussie tragic's format of having two polls per position. I know it looks a bit silly now to take the poll for no.3 to the next round since the race is basically between lara and ponting with dravid a distant third and while younis khan has got only two votes. but with all the discussion we've had someone might change his mind or not have the time vote in the next poll. or the younis khan supporters might want to back one of the big three as their second choice, since they might want to make thier votes count in someway. these things will change the results. i think it is perfectly fine to do the selection round for this position also since the outcome is not yet absolutely clear. i may vote for lara the next time. i am feeling guilty for letting him down !!!aussie tragic said:Better than Boonie and Andrew Jones with one
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
Eight days per position is just way way way too long. Thats 88 days for eleven positions, almost three months.
The voting should be two days preliminary, one day final, per position...at the most.
The voting should be two days preliminary, one day final, per position...at the most.
JBH001
International Regular
Agreed.silentstriker said:
Despite C_C's attempt at justification, it really means very little when you consider that Dravid really filled his boots (and inflated his average) against Australia during the 2003 - 2004 tour. But if you look at the quality of bowling he faced during that tour - it lacked the McWarne combination. Instead he bowled at Lee (who was not half the bowler then he was in the Ashes, or now) and/or Gillespie (who was out of form and missed McGrath at the other end) and Bracken and Bichel. None of these are great bowlers - Gillespie is a very good bowler, Lee at the time was a good bowler (perhaps now a very good bowler), and Bracken and Bichel are merely competent. When Dravid did come up againt the McWarne combination - at home in India, no less - he was found wanting and wound up with a sub 30 series average, if I remember right.
Ponting does however have a shocker against India, in India, a really, really bad record, and it is a blot of his overall record. When and if they next tour there he needs to score big - or it will be held against him during and after his career. However seeing the form he is in at the moment, I would put money on him coming up trumps and evening the score - but we shall have to wait and see.
Comparing Dravid and Ponting according to the same criteria and favouring Dravid is 'ludicrous' - the only explanation being either poor judgement and/or bias. Looking at runs scored, strike rates, conversion rates etc it would be more precise to say that Ponting is to Dravid what Bradman was to Hammond. A class above.
R_D
International Debutant
I wouldn't go that far. Sure Dravid doesn't have a great record against combination of McGrath and Warne but neither does he have a ridiculous avg in a particular country. Fact that Dravid has the best away average out of all current player says something about him so i don't see how you can call Ponting a class above Ponting unless of course you're showing some sort of bias that you're accusing someone else of ?JBH001 said:
I voted for Lara but i do feel his right position would be 4th or 5th though.
JBH001
International Regular
No, no, I am not biased - or I try not to be.
Lets just say that I was throwing an incendiary flame when I shouldn't have!
Yes, I was going too far - however, I do believe that Ponting is a better batsman than Dravid. Despite the fact that it is a close run thing, the fact also that Ponting is predominantly an attacking batsman, whilst Dravid is predominantly a defensive batsman should favour Ponting.
Lets just say that I was throwing an incendiary flame when I shouldn't have!
Yes, I was going too far - however, I do believe that Ponting is a better batsman than Dravid. Despite the fact that it is a close run thing, the fact also that Ponting is predominantly an attacking batsman, whilst Dravid is predominantly a defensive batsman should favour Ponting.
aussie tragic
International Captain
The 5-day preliminary and 3-day selection timeframes were established in order to ensure people had enough time to vote (and people are still registering votes today).silentstriker said:
However, I do think we can take one day of the preliminary votes so that it is a 4-day preliminary and 3-day selection.
Note: The selection Poll should be the most interesting, so I don't want to shorten that (e.g. now that Lara, Ponting & Dravid are assured of going into the # 4 Position Poll, maybe votes will change dramatically???).
C_C
International Captain
I am sorry but this is ludicrous. Ponting isnt class above Dravid. The two batsmen who are (career-wise) class above ANYONE of the last 15 years is Lara and Tendulkar. Rest all come behind them-Ponting included.
Infact, Ponting is quite shaky against spin on crumbling wickets. Even in SL he had a lotta problem on a couple of crumbling pitches (SL normally dont have crumblers. Just slow square turners).
Not to mention, as i said, Ponting never had to face McWarne.
As per 'at home' vs McWarne- i dont know what that proves- India has been one of the toughest place for batsmen (contrary to the popular myth) for a long while now probably second only to NZ.
We arnt talking one dayers here, where it can be argued that Ponting is better than Dravid (and going by the last 5-6 years, only just). In tests, Dravid is still better than Ponting- he is more consistent, he comes to party when no one shows up and most importantly, he isnt a bit of 'homemade bread' like Punter is. So far, Dravid has done better than Punter away from home-significantly so i might add. Not to mention, any batsman with such an obvious chink in his armous as Punter ( clueless on crumblers) has a tenuous grasp of greatness regardless of their overall record.