• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Is Darrell Hair Ok to be on the International Panel ?

Should Darrell Hair continue as ODI Umpire ?


  • Total voters
    47
  • Poll closed .

Craig

World Traveller
The way I view it is, that IMO Hair is a good umpire but is very controversial but he should keep on umpiring. If Pakistan are found to have tampered with the ball, then Hair will look correct, but if not I think his career will be over because of the ICC would be willing enough to bend over for the ACC.

If he is to umpire what point is it to let him umpire in only certain countries against certain teams? He thought something so he reported it, and yet Pakistan decided to stay inside then come back out and try and win the Test (which they would have deserved to have done so).

IMO this is just going to come to where people come from, you are going to have the Indian, Pakistani, Sri Lankan (and maybe Bangladeshi) fans tell us that Hair has an issue against Asian teams, whereas those not fans of Asian teams will tell a different story.

All we need is CC.
 

Anil

Hall of Fame Member
Craig said:
The way I view it is, that IMO Hair is a good umpire but is very controversial but he should keep on umpiring. If Pakistan are found to have tampered with the ball, then Hair will look correct, but if not I think his career will be over because of the ICC would be willing enough to bend over for the ACC.
so pakistan is guilty until proved innocent...and if hair is found to have made a gargantuan mistake, being punished for it would mean icc is bending over for the acc since as we all know he is such a great umpire...

Craig said:
If he is to umpire what point is it to let him umpire in only certain countries against certain teams? He thought something so he reported it, and yet Pakistan decided to stay inside then come back out and try and win the Test (which they would have deserved to have done so).
not exactly, he thought/assumed something, so he immediately punished pakistan for it...

Craig said:
IMO this is just going to come to where people come from, you are going to have the Indian, Pakistani, Sri Lankan (and maybe Bangladeshi) fans tell us that Hair has an issue against Asian teams, whereas those not fans of Asian teams will tell a different story.
it is not such an even split as you make it out to be, but even if it is, asian fans have given enough and more reasons why asian teams have a problem with this guy, you have just chosen to disregard/dismiss it as evidenced by the first and second parts of your post...
 

Craig

World Traveller
Anil said:
so pakistan is guilty until proved innocent...and if hair is found to have made a gargantuan mistake, being punished for it would mean icc is bending over for the acc since as we all know he is such a great umpire...
As so evidenced this by this has been sweeped under the carpet by the ICC? He has been made to look a scapegoat out of this, although I admit he brought it upon himself if Pakistan is found to have not done so.

Anil said:
not exactly, he thought/assumed something, so he immediately punished pakistan for it...
And didn't he consult Doctrove as well? So he must be just as guality? I suppose the other viable option was to have gone back after the day's play and then reported it? What other options where there?

Anil said:
it is not such an even split as you make it out to be, but even if it is, asian fans have given enough and more reasons why asian teams have a problem with this guy, you have just chosen to disregard/dismiss it as evidenced by the first and second parts of your post...
I called on how I saw it.
 

Anil

Hall of Fame Member
Craig said:
As so evidenced this by this has been sweeped under the carpet by the ICC? He has been made to look a scapegoat out of this, although I admit he brought it upon himself if Pakistan is found to have not done so.
as of now, no one has swept anything under any carpet...hair's "retirement offer" expose by speed is of a dubious nature admittedly, speed is clearly an ******* for first entertaining his offer and then selling him out, and inzy's actions after hair's decision were serious overreactions and could've been handled much better, having said all that, this doesn't excuse hair's conduct in the least, based on the "condition" of the ball, he made a decision that it had been altered artificially by pakistan and decided to punish them without any other evidence....now you would say the umpire doesn't need any other evidence, how many other umpires around the world, asian or non-asian do this without any reasonable proof? it's almost as if this guy was looking for the slightest excuse to dock pakistan....

Craig said:
And didn't he consult Doctrove as well? So he must be just as guality? I suppose the other viable option was to have gone back after the day's play and then reported it? What other options where there?
....not sure what passed between the two umpires, to my understanding it was essentially hair's decision, doctrove might have stood by him on the decision....in any case, i don't think the officials are going to argue/fight about a decision on the field whether they agree about it personally or not....

Craig said:
I called on how I saw it.
...i know, i was just commenting on your way of "seeing it".....
 

JASON

Cricketer Of The Year
The hearing on September 27th may end up not finding Hair guilty (or Inzy) and let Darrell off the hook with some face saving. But if that happens, I hope the ICC ensure that Cricket Australia cannot keep him for ODIs .

Because that's the last thing you need for this controversy to die down before you see the guy create another storm when one of the subcontinental Teams go down under .
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
JASON said:
The hearing on September 27th may end up not finding Hair guilty (or Inzy) and let Darrell off the hook with some face saving. But if that happens, I hope the ICC ensure that Cricket Australia cannot keep him for ODIs .

Because that's the last thing you need for this controversy to die down before you see the guy create another storm when one of the subcontinental Teams go down under .
IMO, the hearing is nothing but a glorified pr exercise designed to appease the Pakistanis.

The most likely outcome is the side-lining of Hair and a slap on the wrist for Inzy.

Both sides will claim a moral victory but the loser will be the game.

Likewise, the ICC will undoubtedly bow to pressure from certain quarters and change their umpiring appointments. This only serves to undermine the integrity of the game further.

There are obviously a lot of people around with short memories - it has quickly been forgotten that most umpires from the sub-continent were universally regarded as biased for years and years.

Did any opposition refuse to play?
 
Last edited:

Dasa

International Vice-Captain
social said:
There are obviously a lot of people around with short memories - it has quickly been forgotten that most umpires from the sub-continent were universally regarded as biased for years and years.
Exactly the same as umpires everywhere were. It's just that your ilk ignored it when the subcontinentals complained.
social said:
Did any opposition refuse to play?
Were they told they were cheats?
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Dasa said:
Exactly the same as umpires everywhere were. It's just that your ilk ignored it when the subcontinentals complained.

Were they told they were cheats?
Does the name "Mike Gatting" ring a bell?
 

C_C

International Captain
it has quickly been forgotten that most umpires from the sub-continent were universally regarded as biased for years and years.
What has been universally regarded (if you read Sobers, Holding, Walters etc) is that India is one place where they found the most neutral umpires some of the times...and you'd find that Australia and Pakistan were the two places that consistently were rated by most opposition players to be by far the worst cases of biassed umpiring in general.
 

Dasa

International Vice-Captain
social said:
Does the name "Mike Gatting" ring a bell?
What's your point? Gatting also threatened to refuse to play, it's just that in his case he was convinced not to take that action.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Dasa said:
What's your point? Gatting also threatened to refuse to play, it's just that in his case he was convinced not to take that action.
In other words, sanity prevailed - something that has been sorely lacking in Pakistan's entire response to the issue.
 

Dasa

International Vice-Captain
social said:
In other words, sanity prevailed - something that has been sorely lacking in Pakistan's entire response to the issue.
Why criticise only the Pakistanis? You make it seem like they are completely at fault...did Hair/Doctrove not do anything wrong at all?
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
C_C said:
What has been universally regarded (if you read Sobers, Holding, Walters etc) is that India is one place where they found the most neutral umpires some of the times...and you'd find that Australia and Pakistan were the two places that consistently were rated by most opposition players to be by far the worst cases of biassed umpiring in general.
I was taking a less controversial stance by not singling out Pakistan - my apologies to all Indians.

Australian umpires were bad for a number of years (to the point where their incompetence actually cost Aus test matches - see an Ashes test at Perth where Tom Brooks well and truly shafted Aus as an example).

Now, the umpire acknowledged as being the best is an Australian and he isnt allowed to stand in test matches involving Australia.

As a result, we have to put up with total incompetents like (Bucknor and Rudi) and the sub-continent gets Hair.

Yet, when we advocate the use of the best umpires no matter what their nationality, it's rejected.

When we advocate the use of an honour system to determine whether a catch was taken fairly or not, it's rejected.

Unfortunately, it seems that the only way some people will be pleased is if every decision goes their way. If not, they walk.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Dasa said:
Why criticise only the Pakistanis? You make it seem like they are completely at fault...did Hair/Doctrove not do anything wrong at all?
Did Hair force Inzy to forfeit?

Did Hair force Inzy into attempting to blackmail the ICC?

Whatever happened to being accountable for your own actions?
 

Fusion

Global Moderator
social said:
Did Hair force Inzy to forfeit?

Did Hair force Inzy into attempting to blackmail the ICC?

Whatever happened to being accountable for your own actions?
Did someone force Hair not to continue the game when all sides wanted to play?

Did someone force Hair into attempting to blackmail the ICC with his damand for cash?

Whatever happened to "you're not bigger than the game"? Was Hair's ego bigger than the game?
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Fusion said:
Did someone force Hair not to continue the game when all sides wanted to play?

Did someone force Hair into attempting to blackmail the ICC with his damand for cash?

Whatever happened to "you're not bigger than the game"? Was Hair's ego bigger than the game?
1. One of the first things any youngster is taught about the game are the rules relating to forfeit.

Pakistan had ample opportunity to resume and chose not to. Unfortunately, the umpires had no choice but to declare the game over.

2. a. The guy has a contract

b. He had obviously had discussions with the ICC to that effect

c. In a misguided attempt to diffuse the situation, he offered to resign in return for his contract being paid out.

d.Are you really gullible enough to think that Hair would engineer such a situation in order to receive what he was going to get anyway and, in the process, render himself unemployable.

3. Are u talking about Hair or Inzy?

What makes Inzy so special that he thinks he can get away scott-free with something never before done in the history of test cricket?

Oh that's right, he's a Pakistani and Hair is a racist
 

Fusion

Global Moderator
social said:
Pakistan had ample opportunity to resume and chose not to. Unfortunately, the umpires had no choice but to declare the game over.
They did have a choice. They could've easily continued the game. The Pak team was ready, the England team was ready, and I guarantee you ICC wouldn't have minded. So please stop making this absurd argument that Hair couldn't continue.

social said:
Are you really gullible enough to think that Hair would engineer such a situation in order to receive what he was going to get anyway and, in the process, render himself unemployable.
Where did I say that? You said that Inzi "blackmailed" the ICC and I pointed out that it was actually Hair who was doing that. All of sudden, his principals and love of upholding the game's rules dissapeared. He wanted the ICC to pay him off , in return for not causing any trouble. All so he can go off in the sunset with his cash. How pathetic.

social said:
Oh that's right, he's a Pakistani and Hair is a racist
Please show me where I have EVER claimed that Hair is racist? You of course want to believe that all Pakistani's (or sub-continentals) are playing the race card. How despicable. So basically to you Hair is without any faults whatsoever and he can not be critisized. Those who do critisize him are "Pakistani's" that have a sense of entitlement and love playing the race card. 8-)
 

C_C

International Captain
social said:
Now, the umpire acknowledged as being the best is an Australian and he isnt allowed to stand in test matches involving Australia.

As a result, we have to put up with total incompetents like (Bucknor and Rudi) and the sub-continent gets Hair.

Yet, when we advocate the use of the best umpires no matter what their nationality, it's rejected.

When we advocate the use of an honour system to determine whether a catch was taken fairly or not, it's rejected.

Unfortunately, it seems that the only way some people will be pleased is if every decision goes their way. If not, they walk.

Apart from a few overzealous Aussie fans ( who support Hair from a sense of patriotism more than anything else), i've never heard Hair being mentioned as the best. No, infact his quality has been par for the course-nothing more, nothing less.
Best umpire without nationality is an absurd concept and in no international team sport is the umpire from either of the nations engaged in the said contest.
But i dont know where exactly you are getting the notion of 'we advocated best umpires'- the change to neutral umpires was done at the behest of Imran Khan, Gavaskar, Holding and Lloyd, largely due to Dalmiya's support for their valid argument pertaining to extremely biassed umpiring meted out by certain first world cricketing nations to the third world ones ( colonialist mentality).
As per taking the word for it- to be frank, the reputation of many Australian players are in question not only amongst fans but by several non-aussie players themselves. True, players having a bad reputation around the circuit is not an Australia-only syndrome but by far, the sheer number of Aussie players thought to be unfair players and the number of people who think that (fans and players) far outstrips any other nation's.
You call it 'envy of success', yet this has been the case since the days of Ian Chappell and Lillee, with many for example holding the notion that the Aussie team between mid 80s and mid 90s was the most uncouth and unfair team out in the field.
Many Australian players are gentlemen but many just play hard and forget the ' and fair' bit. And this, mind you, is not a cricket-only phenomenon.I've heard some Canadian players single out Aussie team in off-the-record convos in fairly low profile sports too. You may not like it - i wouldnt either if it were my country but whichever way you look at it, it is a fact that Australian sportsmen, particularly teams, in general, enjoy a rather low level of confidence (in terms of fairplay) overseas.You may look at it only from a cricketing angle and see the color divide as a convinient excuse but when a white Canadian chick talks about her 'rough experience' with 'foulmouthed Aussie chicks from the flipping rowing team', its a question of your whole sporting culture (and sometimes much bigger than that itself) being singled out through various autonomous incidents.I'll say this for the Aussie sporting culture- they hate to lose probably more than anyone else in the world and their drive to win is simply peerless. This is probably the reason for excellence from a country that is no more advanced or any more involved than many others and with such a small population base(Ausitralia).But unfortunately, this peerless drive to win sometimes just translates to 'win at all costs' for quite a few of yer blokes. As such, 'taking their word for it' is simply not on.
But then, there are many gentlemen Aussie sportsmen and one of the few sportsmen i genuinely admire as a human being is Pat Rafter. Perhaps, to borrow from Chemistry, this 'fudging the boundary between win and win-at-all-costs' is present in the form of 'weak force' interaction within the cultural soup.
 
Last edited:

C_C

International Captain
d.Are you really gullible enough to think that Hair would engineer such a situation in order to receive what he was going to get anyway and, in the process, render himself unemployable.
And perhaps you might be gullible enough to think that there is no self interest involved in 'offering to resign today and pocket the salary of next 5 years in advance without actually working', ie, take the money and split ?
8-)
 
Last edited:

Top