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Soth Africa ball tampered in 1997

BoyBrumby

Englishman
cricketboy29 said:
So if it's in any English/Australian newspaper then it's ok. But if it's an Indian Newspaper, hell no. It's all lies, they're all making stuff up for a quick buck.

And when did Indians actaully get charged from ball-tampering, as far as I can recall. It was only the pakistanis not the Indians. Frankly, I think that's bull as well. What was called ball-tampering then, is now called reverse swing now. Hailed as a new art...etc etc..

From memory haven't Dravid & Sachin both been fined for it? Sachin v South Africa (there was that huge hoo-ha with Mike Denness) & Dravid more recently in Oz for using sweets & then applying the sugary spit to the ball.
 

R_D

International Debutant
Langeveldt said:
Well if these "afrikaner boys" are such cheats, then why on earth has no Englishman, Aussie or South African been formally charged with ball tampering? Surely it would be in Jarmans interests to have charged them if there is such "conclusive proof" of wrongdoing..

I also wonder how much Jarman was offered by "The Hindu" for releasing this "revelation"
Didnt' we have an ICC refree tell us that SA, Aus, NZ etc play their game aggressively so they should be allowed to bully the umpires where's if the sub-cont teams tried they'd be fined for exerting pressure on umpire. When you have people with that mentality working in ICC, than is their really any wonder why the non-sub cont player haven't been fined for ball tempering.
Here we have a match refree accpeting the fact that SA ball tempered but only he knows why it was kept quite. I doubt if that would have happened say if Ind or Pak had done ball tempring.
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
R_D said:
Didnt' we have an ICC refree tell us that SA, Aus, NZ etc play their game aggressively so they should be allowed to bully the umpires where's if the sub-cont teams tried they'd be fined for exerting pressure on umpire. When you have people with that mentality working in ICC, than is their really any wonder why the non-sub cont player haven't been fined for ball tempering.
Here we have a match refree accpeting the fact that SA ball tempered but only he knows why it was kept quite. I doubt if that would have happened say if Ind or Pak had done ball tempring.
Nothing like some complete guesswork and vague memory recall to support a load of bunkum.
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
Used to, but lets disreguard that minor technicality, why let that get in the way?

Anyway, Woolmers come up with this, and i'd take the AFP as a more reliable news source than any of your tinpot dailys..


Woolmer defends reputation


AFP

August 27, 2006



Bob Woolmer can't remember the incident Barry Jarman has talked about


Bob Woolmer, the Pakistan coach, was forced to defend his reputation after it was claimed South African players tampered with the ball when he was in charge of the team 10 years ago.

Woolmer's Pakistan team have been at the centre of the row which began with last weekend's forfeiture of the fourth and final Test, and continued with Darrell Hair's demand for $500,000 to resign in the wake of the uproar.

Now, on the eve of the Twenty20 international against England in Bristol, Woolmer reacted to claims that South African players lifted the seam.

The claims were made by the former ICC match referee Barry Jarman who alleged that during a triangular one-day tournament involving South Africa, Zimbabwe and India in early 1997 a match ball confiscated after just 16 overs - still in Jarman's possession - bears the ravages of tampering by Woolmer's team.

At a loss to recall anything of the sort, Woolmer said: "I just cannot, and do not, understand why Barry Jarman has said this. As far as I'm concerned, it's fiction.

"As far as I know, I don't ever remember a ball being taken off after the 16th over. I surely would have remembered it. I wasn't ball-scratching. I'm the coach. What does he think ... that I teach ball-scratching?"

A mystified Woolmer has even taken the step of contacting the officials in the match he believes is in question - and he reports they are unaware of any wrong-doing. "Go and ask the two umpires in the same game that I'm supposed to have done this," he advised. "They will say that they don't know anything about it.
 

Dasa

International Vice-Captain
Langeveldt said:
Used to, but lets disreguard that minor technicality, why let that get in the way?

Anyway, Woolmers come up with this, and i'd take the AFP as a more reliable news source than any of your tinpot dailys..
I suppose subcontinental newspapers are about as reliable as those savages wandering around and killing each other in Africa, eh? Yet you have the audacity to suggest other people over-use the 'race card'?
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Dasa said:
I suppose subcontinental newspapers are about as reliable as those savages wandering around and killing each other in Africa, eh? Yet you have the audacity to suggest other people over-use the 'race card'?
The race card has played to death by people against Hair, as I've said elsewhere people can throw the 'racist' remark about without repercussions but if some of the mud sticks it has a hell of an effect.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
Scaly piscine said:
The race card has played to death by people against Hair, as I've said elsewhere people can throw the 'racist' remark about without repercussions but if some of the mud sticks it has a hell of an effect.
Pot banging the Kettle.
 

Matteh

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Dasa said:
I suppose subcontinental newspapers are about as reliable as those savages wandering around and killing each other in Africa, eh? Yet you have the audacity to suggest other people over-use the 'race card'?
The point made was not that The Hindu should be completely disregarded as it's a subcontinental newspaper, just that it should be taken with a pinch of salt due to the massive bias it'll have. The same would apply for a English, Aus or Saffie newspaper. Did you never have to write history essays?
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
And the point you seem to forget is that it was a NEWS REPORT of an Interview given to an Aussie Newspaper and was reported in pretty much every newspaper in the world that follows cricket.
 

Matteh

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Sanz said:
And the point you seem to forget is that it was a NEWS REPORT of an Interview given to an Aussie Newspaper and was reported in pretty much every newspaper in the world that follows cricket.
And the same article was printed word for word across the world? Which is how the bias creeps in...
 

Dasa

International Vice-Captain
Matteh said:
The point made was not that The Hindu should be completely disregarded as it's a subcontinental newspaper, just that it should be taken with a pinch of salt due to the massive bias it'll have. The same would apply for a English, Aus or Saffie newspaper. Did you never have to write history essays?
The point was made purely on the basis that it was a subcontinental newspaper. The content of the article was originally from the Courier Mail, a newspaper from Brisbane, but Langeveldt chose to disparage the source because he thought it was from an Indian newspaper. Furthermore, there are posts in this thread that mention that the article originally appeared in an Australian newspaper. Langeveldt chose to ignore this, and went on to call The Hindu a "tinpot daily" when it is in fact a highly respected newspaper. It doesn't have "massive bias", and is generally balanced. Going from all that, do you really think Langeveldt was making a point on media bias?

On your second point, of course I know all about bias, I've even studied media bias in university.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
Matteh said:
And the same article was printed word for word across the world? Which is how the bias creeps in...
What difference does it make, as long as the news items quotes the original source , i.e. The Hindu quoted Courier Mail :-


``The ball is only 16 overs old, yet one side has been tampered with and you can see where they have run their thumbnails down the seam which opens up,'' Jarman, who had kept it a secret before producing the ball in his possession till date, was quoted as saying by the Courier Mail on Friday
 

Dasa

International Vice-Captain
Matteh said:
And the same article was printed word for word across the world? Which is how the bias creeps in...
Why not take a look at the articles in question?
http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,,20239539-23209,00.html - the Australian source
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/007200608260324.htm - the Indian source
I just took another quick look at them, and if there is any bias in the reporting, it seems to be evident in the Australian source. So where's the basis for Langeveldt's assertion?
 

Matteh

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Sanz said:
What difference does it make, as long as the news items quotes the original source , i.e. The Hindu quoted Courier Mail :-


``The ball is only 16 overs old, yet one side has been tampered with and you can see where they have run their thumbnails down the seam which opens up,'' Jarman, who had kept it a secret before producing the ball in his possession till date, was quoted as saying by the Courier Mail on Friday
Because of the rest of the analysis with it shapes minds.
 

Dasa

International Vice-Captain
Matteh said:
Because of the rest of the analysis with it shapes minds.
As I said, take a look at the articles and compare them.
Honestly, I cannot see why you're defending Langeveldt. He might have had a point if he was making a point about media bias in general, but he clearly singled out the subcontinental media, and it's not the first time he's had plenty to say about Asians either.
 

Matteh

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Dasa said:
As I said, take a look at the articles and compare them.
Honestly, I cannot see why you're defending Langeveldt. He might have had a point if he was making a point about media bias in general, but he clearly singled out the subcontinental media, and it's not the first time he's had plenty to say about Asians either.
Because they're exactly the same? Nope.
I'm not defending Rich, R_D absolutely jumped down the throat of Aussiedominance for pointing out that there could be bias involved.
 

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