Best Batsman of the Last 10 Years

Goughy · 22-08-2006, 04:55 PM

Im sure many of you have read this already, but I have not seen it mentioned.
This was originally from the UK Wisden Cricketer and I read it in South African Sports Illustrated.

I thought it was relevant given the votes currently going on.

The theory was that averages, emotions and memories are not the best ways to subjectively rationalize who was the best batsmen.

They set 10 criteria that players were ranked in and then the list was produced.

The 10 Criteria (each of equal weighting)

Score Ratio- Batting Average divided by that of their contemporaries
Failure Rate- % of Innings under 20
Conversion Rate- % of innings greater than 20 converted into 100s
% of Match Centuries- % of all centuries in matches he played that were made by that individual
% of Batsmens Runs- % of total runs scored in a game that were made by that individual
% of Own Teams Runs
Strike Rate
Top Scorer- % of games in which he was top scorer
Conventional Averages
% of Centuries in Victories

There was one guy that topped the list by a mile and that was......Matthew Hayden. It was not even close.

Top 10

1 Hayden
2 Tendulkar
3 Ul-Haq
4 Ponting
5 Lara
6 Sehwag
7 de Silva
8 G. Smith
9 Anwar
10 Cullinan

THe most amazing thing about seeing the broken down figures is what a successful career Cullinan had and the number of times he scored runs when no-one else was capable. He has become a bit of a joke figure but looking at his career breakdown all I can say is "Wow". I was surprised.

EDIT- Before people ask, Dravid and Kallis were 11th and 12th respectively

silentstriker · 22-08-2006, 05:08 PM

That is very interesting. Can you do the same thing for Sachin & Lara (from 1991-2000)? I always thought Hayden was the best opener since Gavaskar, but I wouldn't have put him ahead of Ponting, let alone Lara & Tendulkar. I still wouldn't put Ponting & Inzamam ahead of Lara. Again, this is taking the whole career, not just 10 years.

I bet both would be higher. I realize that is not the point, but I would just like to see the results.

Goughy · 22-08-2006, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silentstriker

That is very interesting. Can you do the same thing for Sachin & Lara (from 1991-2000)? I always thought Hayden was the best opener since Gavaskar, but I wouldn't have put him ahead of Ponting, let alone Lara & Tendulkar. I still wouldn't put Ponting & Inzamam ahead of Lara. Again, this is taking the whole career, not just 10 years.

I bet both would be higher. I realize that is not the point, but I would just like to see the results.

I didnt do this, it was done by Cricketer magazine. It would take a hell of a lot of work to do this or something similar for a different time period.

I would love to cliam it as my own work, but I mentioned at the top of the post where it came from.

I wish it was mine

aussie · 22-08-2006, 05:13 PM

very interesting breakdown indeed.

FRAZ · 22-08-2006, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goughy

Top 10

1 Hayden
2 Tendulkar
3 Ul-Haq
4 Ponting
5 Lara
6 Sehwag
7 de Silva
8 G. Smith
9 Anwar
10 Cullinan

Number 2,3,6,7,9 and may be 5 also , under jeopardy tbh if the umpiring standard is the same like the one recently ..

Goughy · 22-08-2006, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRAZ

Number 2,3,6,7,9 and may be 5 also , under jeopardy tbh if the umpiring standard is the same like the one recently ..

Why hijack this thread when there are plenty of other threads you can vent your opinions on a seperate issue?

Rhetorical qustion, no need to respond

BoyBrumby · 22-08-2006, 05:29 PM

It surprised me Matty was top, but when I stop to think that's probably more reflective of my own prejudices I guess . I'm not a particularly big Hayden fan, either as player or personality. The vague hint of the FTB hangs around him & he's a bit of a blow-hard too.

Fat Gray being so high is a bit of a shock tho, confirmed non-fan as I may be.

Who was the top Pom & where did he rank?

FRAZ · 22-08-2006, 05:34 PM

Tendulkar
Inzamam
Brian Charles Lara
Dravid
Sehwag
Saeed Anwar
Jayasuriya
Yousaf
Laxman

TT Boy · 22-08-2006, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRAZ

Tendulkar
Inzamam
Brian Charles Lara
Dravid
Sehwag
Saeed Anwar
Jayasuriya
Yousaf
Laxman

Why the list? Goughy did not ask for your top ten (or nine).

Goughy · 22-08-2006, 05:39 PM

Top Pom according to the list by Wisden Cricketer, and reproduced by SASI, (I just wanted to reitterate that agian as people seem to miss it on the original post) was Trescothick at #13

Goughy · 22-08-2006, 05:48 PM

I liked the 10 criteria used by the magazine to try and take bias, emotion and the human element of the judgement and the list they produced seems reasonable.

However, having looked at the article in depth, I dont like the scoring system.

Applying my scoring criteria to the predefined set of 10 criteria the rankings would be

1 Tendulkar
2 Hayden
3 Lara
4 De Silva
5 Dravid
6= Sehwag
6= Cullinan
6= Flower
9= Kallis
9= Ul-Haq

11 Ponting
12 Gilchrist
13 Waugh

The numbers get too small and close to make any conclusions below this.

I dont know if its a better list and Ill admit that their investigation was deeper, but I was not a fan of the scoring system.

silentstriker · 22-08-2006, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goughy

I liked the 10 criteria used by the magazine to try and take bias, emotion and the human element of the judgement and the list they produced seems reasonable.

However, having looked at the article in depth, I dont like the scoring system.

Applying my scoring criteria to the predefined set of 10 criteria the rankings would be

1 Tendulkar
2 Hayden
3 Lara
4 De Silva
5 Dravid
6= Sehwag
6= Cullinan
6= Flower
9= Kallis
9= Ul-Haq

11 Ponting

I dont know if its a better list and Ill admit that their investigation was deeper, but I was not a fan of the scoring system.

Thats a bit better. Flower IMO is a bit higher than he should be, mainly because of the 'highest score in the side' criteria? I still can't see Hayden being better than Lara, and I do think Ponting is better than Flower/De Silva/Cullinan/Kallis/Ul-Haq/Sehwag, and even Dravid. I would have him as like #3, maybe #4, but no lower.

silentstriker · 22-08-2006, 05:53 PM

My choice would be:

1. Tendulkar
2. Lara
3. Ponting
4. Dravid
5. Hayden
6. Ul-Haq

Take your pick after #6. Sehwag is great, but he needs to solve his problems with the short ball before he can climb into the top six-eight.

Pothas · 22-08-2006, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goughy

I liked the 10 criteria used by the magazine to try and take bias, emotion and the human element of the judgement and the list they produced seems reasonable.

Cricket is about emotion and the human element in judging a player.
If is about stats why dont you play on microsoft excell?

open365 · 22-08-2006, 05:59 PM

DE.Silva so high up?

I'm suprised, i've only seen highlights of one of his innings but i never thought he was that good.

I'm not sure about the best, but my favourite batsmen are

1.Hayden
2.Smith
3.Lara
4.Tendulkar
5.Mal Loye

22-08-2006, 04:55 PM	#1 (permalink)
Goughy International Coach Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: All Over Posts: 14,657	Best Batsman of the Last 10 Years Im sure many of you have read this already, but I have not seen it mentioned. This was originally from the UK Wisden Cricketer and I read it in South African Sports Illustrated. I thought it was relevant given the votes currently going on. The theory was that averages, emotions and memories are not the best ways to subjectively rationalize who was the best batsmen. They set 10 criteria that players were ranked in and then the list was produced. The 10 Criteria (each of equal weighting) Score Ratio- Batting Average divided by that of their contemporaries Failure Rate- % of Innings under 20 Conversion Rate- % of innings greater than 20 converted into 100s % of Match Centuries- % of all centuries in matches he played that were made by that individual % of Batsmens Runs- % of total runs scored in a game that were made by that individual % of Own Teams Runs Strike Rate Top Scorer- % of games in which he was top scorer Conventional Averages % of Centuries in Victories There was one guy that topped the list by a mile and that was......Matthew Hayden. It was not even close. Top 10 1 Hayden 2 Tendulkar 3 Ul-Haq 4 Ponting 5 Lara 6 Sehwag 7 de Silva 8 G. Smith 9 Anwar 10 Cullinan THe most amazing thing about seeing the broken down figures is what a successful career Cullinan had and the number of times he scored runs when no-one else was capable. He has become a bit of a joke figure but looking at his career breakdown all I can say is "Wow". I was surprised. EDIT- Before people ask, Dravid and Kallis were 11th and 12th respectively __________________ If I only just posted the above post, please wait 5 mins before replying as there is bound to be edits West Robham Rabid Wolves Caedere lemma quod eat lemma Happy Birthday! (easier than using Birthday threads) Email and MSN- Goughy at cricketmail dot net Last edited by Goughy; 22-08-2006 at 05:03 PM.

22-08-2006, 05:29 PM	#7 (permalink)
BoyBrumby Englishman Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Doing the stance Posts: 42,658	It surprised me Matty was top, but when I stop to think that's probably more reflective of my own prejudices I guess . I'm not a particularly big Hayden fan, either as player or personality. The vague hint of the FTB hangs around him & he's a bit of a blow-hard too. Fat Gray being so high is a bit of a shock tho, confirmed non-fan as I may be. Who was the top Pom & where did he rank? __________________ *- As featured in The Independent.* "This is not the time for namby-pamby promising youngsters who might just do something; not the time for building for the future. Pragmatism rules and they don't come more pragmatic than Rogers." - Victor Marks makes the case for stiff-legged and stiff-armed 35 year old left-handers in Ashes squads

22-08-2006, 05:48 PM	#11 (permalink)
Goughy International Coach Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: All Over Posts: 14,657	I liked the 10 criteria used by the magazine to try and take bias, emotion and the human element of the judgement and the list they produced seems reasonable. However, having looked at the article in depth, I dont like the scoring system. Applying my scoring criteria to the predefined set of 10 criteria the rankings would be 1 Tendulkar 2 Hayden 3 Lara 4 De Silva 5 Dravid 6= Sehwag 6= Cullinan 6= Flower 9= Kallis 9= Ul-Haq 11 Ponting 12 Gilchrist 13 Waugh The numbers get too small and close to make any conclusions below this. I dont know if its a better list and Ill admit that their investigation was deeper, but I was not a fan of the scoring system. Last edited by Goughy; 22-08-2006 at 05:51 PM.

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22-08-2006, 05:13 PM	#4 (permalink)
aussie Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Cricket Posts: 16,845	very interesting breakdown indeed.

22-08-2006, 05:34 PM	#8 (permalink)
FRAZ International Captain Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 5,171	Tendulkar Inzamam Brian Charles Lara Dravid Sehwag Saeed Anwar Jayasuriya Yousaf Laxman

22-08-2006, 05:39 PM	#10 (permalink)
Goughy International Coach Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: All Over Posts: 14,657	Top Pom according to the list by Wisden Cricketer, and reproduced by SASI, (I just wanted to reitterate that agian as people seem to miss it on the original post) was Trescothick at #13

22-08-2006, 05:53 PM	#13 (permalink)
silentstriker The Wheel is Forever Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USA Posts: 36,547	My choice would be: 1. Tendulkar 2. Lara 3. Ponting 4. Dravid 5. Hayden 6. Ul-Haq Take your pick after #6. Sehwag is great, but he needs to solve his problems with the short ball before he can climb into the top six-eight.

22-08-2006, 05:59 PM	#15 (permalink)
open365 International Vice-Captain Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: liverpool Posts: 4,066	DE.Silva so high up? I'm suprised, i've only seen highlights of one of his innings but i never thought he was that good. I'm not sure about the best, but my favourite batsmen are 1.Hayden 2.Smith 3.Lara 4.Tendulkar 5.Mal Loye

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