6 Degrees of Separation. A point and a challenge

[Goughy]

There is a point to what I am doing as well as a challenge, so no apologies if someone has done similar before.

Point A lot of people tell us how much better cricket has become and how the older guys dont stack up.

Whilst the game has evolved and may have improved I have no belief that it is due to players getting better. Player just adapt.

Take for example Tendulkar and Gooch. Tendulkar has been one of the all time greats. When he first met up with Gooch, it was when Gooch was at the top of his game towards his career. Gooch debuts in the mid 70s and was a little out of his depth. No doubt the game had changed in 15/16 years but the players had adapted and changed.

Gooch played against Tendulkar and with Boycott. A gap from Boycotts debut to now of nearly 45 years. They all seem to fit together nicely, and played well in their eras and adapted to different ones. Gooch played with or against players whos combined careers lasted for a massive span of over 45 years and he competed against all. With Gooch as the barometer its clear that there were not massive differences between the players at the beginning compared to those at the end.

My point, Cricketers now are not more talented just more adapted to the current version of an ever changing game. I have no doubt that older cricketers would have adapted in the same way.

Challenge- Using the careers of 6 players who, in a chain, have played with or against each other I have managed to go from the present to 1927. I've only tried a few combinations so Im sure it can be beat. Can anyone beat it?

2006-1928

Tendulkar
played against http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1990/IND_IN_ENG/IND_ENG_T1_26-31JUL1990.html
Gooch
played against http://rsa.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1970S/1975/AUS_IN_ENG/AUS_ENG_T1_10-14JUL1975.html
I. Chappell
played against http://content-rsa.cricinfo.com/australia/content/player/4560.html
Hanif Mohammad
played against http://rsa.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1950S/1952-53/PAK_IN_IND/PAK_IND_T1_16-18OCT1952.html
Amarnath
played against http://rsa.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1930S/1933-34/ENG_IN_IND/ENG_IND_T3_10-13FEB1934.html
Jardine

Who made his debut in http://content-rsa.cricinfo.com/england/content/match/62559.html

2006 to 1928 in the careers of 6 players who have played against each other.

Heres another
Ok a quick go again to see if I can beat it.

Using Tendulkar and Gooch again. So

2006-1927

Tendulkar
played against see above
Gooch
played against http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1980S/1980/WI_IN_ENG/WI_ENG_PRT_ODI1_28-29MAY1980.html
Clive Lloyd
played against http://rsa.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1970S/1976/WI_IN_ENG/WI_ENG_T3_08-13JUL1976.html
Brian Close
played with http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1940S/1949/NZ_IN_ENG/NZ_ENG_T3_23-26JUL1949.html
Len Hutton
played with http://rsa.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1930S/1937/NZ_IN_ENG/NZ_ENG_T1_26-29JUN1937.html
Wally Hammond

Who debuted in http://rsa.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1920S/1927-28/ENG_IN_RSA/ENG_RSA_T1_24-27DEC1927.html

2006 to 1927 in 6 players who have played with or against each other.
Anyone do better?

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Bah. I can get to the 19th century.

Tendulkar
played against http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1980S/1989-90/IND_IN_PAK/IND_PAK_T1_15-20NOV1989.html
Javed Miandad in November 1989
played with http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1970S/1976-77/NZ_IN_PAK/NZ_PAK_T1_09-13OCT1976.html
Mushtaq Mohammad in October 1976
played against http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1960S/1962/PAK_IN_ENG/PAK_ENG_T1_31MAY-04JUN1962.html
Brian Statham in June 1962
played against http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1950S/1953-54/ENG_IN_WI/ENG_WI_T1_15-21JAN1954.html
George Headley in January 1954
played against http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1920S/1929-30/ENG_IN_WI/ENG_WI_T1_11-16JAN1930.html
Wilf Rhodes in January 1930,
who debuted in June 1899
http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/england/content/match/62455.html

 

[Goughy]

Bah. I can get to the 19th century.

Excellent, you reckon that can be beaten or is that it?

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Excellent, you reckon that can be beaten or is that it?

I think the Headley-Rhodes combination is pretty unique. Spans 50 years. Unless we include first-class matches as well (though there's no reason why we shouldn't, really?)

 

[Goughy]

Without using Headley-Rhodes Im down to 1907

Tendulkar
Played Against http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1992-93/IND_IN_ZIM/IND_ZIM_T_18-22OCT1992.html
Traicos
Played With http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1960S/1969-70/AUS_IN_RSA/AUS_RSA_T3_19-24FEB1970.html
Trevor Goddard
Played Against http://rsa.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1950S/1955/RSA_IN_ENG/RSA_ENG_T1_09-13JUN1955.html
Compton
Played Against http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1930S/1939/WI_IN_ENG/WI_ENG_T3_19-22AUG1939.html
Constantine
Played Against http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1920S/1929-30/ENG_IN_WI/ENG_WI_T3_21-26FEB1930.html
Gunn

Who made his debut in 1907
http://rsa.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1900S/1907-08/ENG_IN_AUS/ENG_AUS_T1_13-19DEC1907.html

 

[Goughy]

There are some close shaves that if certain guys played an extra year or were selected for a certain tour then we could get WG Grace in the 6.

I mean Headley retired the year Cowdrey made his debut (1954) and if they had played that would have made Headley only 4th on the list (Sachin, Imran, Cowdrey - Headley, Rhodes, Grace)

It would be nice if there is a possible way to get back to grace.

 

[Goughy]

Bah. I can get to the 19th century.

who debuted in June 1899

Bah, Im down to 1890. Details to follow and without using Headley and Rhodes.

Anyone beat that?

 

[BoyBrumby]

Best I've done (before I said "this is silly" & gave up ) is a shameful 1924:

Shane Warne played against Graham Gooch:
http://www.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/1993/AUS_IN_ENG/AUS_ENG_T1_03-07JUN1993.html

Gooch played with John Edrich:
http://uk.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1970S/1975/AUS_IN_ENG/AUS_ENG_T1_10-14JUL1975.html

Edrich played with Brian Close:
http://uk.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1960S/1963/WI_IN_ENG/WI_ENG_T1_06-10JUN1963.html

Close played with Freddy Brown:
http://uk.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1940S/1949/NZ_IN_ENG/NZ_ENG_T3_23-26JUL1949.html

Freddy Brown played with Herbert Sutcliffe:
http://uk.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1930S/1931/NZ_IN_ENG/NZ_ENG_T2_29-31JUL1931.html

Who debuted v South Africa in 1924:
http://uk.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1920S/1924/RSA_IN_ENG/RSA_ENG_T1_14-17JUN1924.html

It's annoying Gooch didn't play v The Windies in 1976, 'cos he debuted the year before. That would link him directly to Close.

 

[superkingdave]

hmm, not quite 1890 but starting from a different player, and an interesting journey

From Inzi
Ian Botham
Doug Walters
Tom Graveney
Dudley Nourse
Herbert Sutcliffe (debut 1924)

 

[Goughy]

Ill flesh this out in a second.
This is my 1890 one, Im putting the bones here before someone gets there first

Lara-Greenidge-Close-Brown-Woolley-Gregory who debuted in 1890

EDIT- Details Below

Lara played with Greenidge
http://rsa.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1990-91/WI_IN_PAK/WI_PAK_T3_06-11DEC1990.html

Greeindge played against Close
http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1970S/1976/WI_IN_ENG/WI_ENG_T3_08-13JUL1976.html

Close played with Brown
http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1950S/1950-51/ENG_IN_AUS/ENG_AUS_T2_22-27DEC1950.html

Brown played with Woolley
http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1930S/1932/IND_IN_ENG/IND_ENG_T_25-28JUN1932.html

Woolley played against Gregory
http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1900S/1909/AUS_IN_ENG/AUS_ENG_T5_09-11AUG1909.html

Gregory debuted in 1890
http://content-rsa.cricinfo.com/australia/content/match/62428.html

1890, Im happy with myself but I bet there is an earlier one.

 

[superkingdave]

okay not quite the same, but from the first ever test match to the present day in 8


Jack Blackman
Syd Gregory
Frank Wooley
Bradman
Neil Harvey
Bob Simpson
Dilip Vengsarkar
Marvin Attapattu

 

[Goughy]

okay not quite the same, but from the first ever test match to the present day in 8

If you take my list from the previous post (post #10) and add Blackman before Gregory, Im there in 7.

 

[wpdavid]

Is it OK to introduce a sort of related point that occasionally taxes me? Namely, where is the cut-off point before which we can safely say that standards were nowhere near what they would become?

Obviously we're talking 19th century here. Having read that Warwick Armstrong rates the Aus side in which he first appeared (circa 1905) as the finest that he played in, it must follow that standards were well established by the turn of the 20th century.

So when did things really take off? By the first test in 1877? Later on when tests became more common? Before that? Clearly in the early part of the 19th century it really was a haphazard affair and it seems implausible that standards were anything to write home about. By the end of it, the game wasn't so very different from the one we know & love.

As a side issue, how good was WG Grace? We all know that test cricket came along too late for him to be at his best in it, so how to we rate his performances in what passed for the domestic game at the time?

Just musing ....

 

[bagapath]

I personally know the grandson, an actor, of nawab of pataudi (sr) who played in the bodyline series. So i know bradman within two degrees. from there i can get to grace through just two more degrees choosing between rhodes and barnes! just trying to be cheeky!!!!

or... hold on... i dont even need bradman. the nawab knew hobbs who knew grace.. so there u go. i am wih the grand old man of cricket within 4 degrees!!!