All Time Sub Cont XI

[Xuhaib]

Tests

S.Gavaskar
H.Mohammad
R.Dravid
S.Tendulkar
Inzi
I.Khan (C)
K.Dev
W.Akram
A.Kumble
W.Bari (wk)
M.Muralitharan

ODI'S

S.Jayasuriya
S.Tendulkar
Z.Abbas
J.Miandad
A.De silva
I.Khan (C)
K.Dev
M.Khan (wk)
W.Akram
S.Mushtaq
W.Younis

 

[Goughy]

Not a bad test team but but it has a very recent bias. Vast majority have played in the 90s or later. I'll have a think and post mine soon.

 

[SJS]

I started by shortlisting players. I am afraid I may not have done justice to Sri Lankan talent. Some players will appear in more than one category.

Openers :
Merchant, Mankad, Gavaskar (India),
Hanif, Majid, Anwar (Pakistan),
Jayasuriya (Sri Lanka)

Middle order :
Hazare, Manjrekar(Vijay), Vishwanath, Vengsarkar, Amarnath(Mohinder), Azhar, Tendulkar, Dravid (India)
Saeed Anwar, Zaheer, Miandad, Inzemam (Pakistan)
Arvinda D'Silva (Sri Lanka)

Keepers :
Kirmani (India)
Bari (Pakistan)
Sangakarra (Sri Lanka)

All Rounders
Mankad, Kapil (India)
Mushtaq, Intekhab, Imran (Pakistan)

New Ball Bowlers:
Nissar, Kapil (India)
Fazal, Imran, Wasim, Waqar (Pakistan)
Vaas (Sri Lanka)

Spinners :
Gupte, Mankad, Prasanna, Bedi, Chandra, Kumble, Harbhajan (India)
Naseem ul Ghani, Mushtaq, Qadir, Qasim, Saqlain (Pakistan)
Muralitharan (Sri Lanka)

Then I decided to choose a touring party from these consisting of 16 players. I think seven batsmen (three of whom can open), seven bowlers (three spinners and four new ball bowlers) and a keeper is the minimum. The sixteenth player depends on the composition of the rest

...to be continued

 

[Goughy]

All Time Sub Cont XI

Gavaskar
Hanif
Merchant
Miandad
Sachin or Dravid (Either or, I could not have both so take your pick)
To Be Decided
Imran (capt)
Engineer (wkt)
Waqar
Bedi
Murali

To Be Decided Cannot decide on this last place. Whether to have an extra seam bowling allrounder (Wasim, Dev etc), or a batsman. If its a batsman, who it should be? (Inzi, Hazare etc.)

Xuhaib has Tendulkar, Kumble and Dravid in the All TIme XI. I could not do this as Tendulkar and Kumble have played in most of the tests Dravid has and Dravid has lost more games than he has won (exc. Zim & Bang). If a team contains 3 alltime greats I would certainly expect them to be able to win more games than they lost ergo all 3 of them cannot be alltime greats.

 

[SJS]

I then decided a process of elimination.
- Jayasuriya since he somehow doesnt belong in an all time 'test' side. I think a great bowler will sort him out. Anwar and Majid too go out.

- Manjrekar, Mohinder, Vengsarkar, Azhar, Inzemam and DeSilva from the middle order.

- Intekhab from the all rounders.

- Nissar due to few opportunities for this magnificient giant from undivided Punjab and Vaas for being out of place in the company (with due regards to sri Lankan sensibilities)

- Naseem ul Ghani, Qadir, Qasim, Saqlain, Kumble and Harbhajan were left out from the spinners because (again IMHO) there were superior bowlers available. Prasanna VERY reluctantly because Murali is available (and eligible).

I now have 22 players :-
Gavaskar
Hanif
Merchant
Mankad
Hazare
Vishwanath
Zaheer
Miandad
Dravid
Tendulkar
Imran
Kapil
Mushtaq
Fazal
Waqar
Wasim
Gupte
Chandra
Bedi
Murali
Bari
Kirmani

Now it gets very tough indeed.

We have too many spinners and too many all rounders. One thing was to leave out a spinner all rounder. From Mankad and Mushtaq I left out Mushtaq. 21 left.

We still have two leg spinners. I preferred to drop the great gupte rather than Chandra since Chandra could turn on the heat suddenly on any surface anywhere in the world. That left 20.

I have to drop an opener. Since Mankad is an allrounder, I thought of dropping the great Merchant again because he got fewer chances to display his talent at the highest level though nearly 2500 runs in a very wet summer in England and a first class batting average second only to Don Bradman speaks volumes for this legend. That leaves 19.

I think with Merchant now IN the side as a standby opener, we could drop the original turbanator, Bishen Bedi. Very sad indeed. That leaves 18. Worth repeating here.

Gavaskar
Hanif
Mankad
Hazare
Vishwanath
Zaheer
Miandad
Dravid
Tendulkar
Imran
Kapil
Fazal
Waqar
Wasim
Chandra
Murali
Bari
Kirmani

There are 8 pure batsmen inclusive of 2 openers

Five new ball bowlers Two of whom are all rounders

Three spinners one of whom is an allrounder who can open the batting too.

I dont have the heart to prune this any further

 

[silentstriker]

All Time Sub Cont XI

Gavaskar
Hanif
Merchant
Miandad
Sachin or Dravid (Either or, I could not have both so take your pick)
To Be Decided
Imran (capt)
Engineer (wkt)
Waqar
Bedi
Murali

To Be Decided Cannot decide on this last place. Whether to have an extra seam bowling allrounder (Wasim, Dev etc), or a batsman. If its a batsman, who it should be? (Inzi, Hazare etc.)

Xuhaib has Tendulkar, Kumble and Dravid in the All TIme XI. I could not do this as Tendulkar and Kumble have played in most of the tests Dravid has and Dravid has lost more games than he has won (exc. Zim & Bang). If a team contains 3 alltime greats I would certainly expect them to be able to win more games than they lost ergo all 3 of them cannot be alltime greats.

I dont think Kumble became an all time Indian great until he started improving overseas. Plus, our bowling attack stinks. It's not merely average, or bad...but flat out stinks. I think that has a lot to to with the losses. If you put up 700 runs every time with an all time great batsman, you will still draw every match...until one time they fail and you lose. So you're 0-1, even though it was the first time in 10 matches that your batsman didn't get 500...you know what I mean?

 

[silentstriker]

Gavaskar
Hanif
Abbas/Miandad
Dravid
Sachin
Imran (capt)
Engineer (wkt)
Kapil
Wasim
Waqar
Murali

 

[SJS]

If one simply HAS to choose a side from these I will probably choose the following twelve.

Gavaskar
Hanif
Hazare
Tendulkar
Miandad/Zaheer
Dravid
Mankad
Imran (captain)
Kapil
Bari
Wasim/Waqar
Murali

Its a great batting side. has Three new ball bowlers and two spinners. Two of these five bowlers are genuine all rounders with multiple test hundreds. A great keeper in Bari and a dynamic captain in Imran (except the problems he may have with Miandad and even Gavaskar one suspects)

 

[SJS]

Its amazing that none of the great spinners is in the side. Shows the bias for faster stuff as exo=ists today, the damage caused to memory by time and the temptaion to stuff all rounders when in effect you are unlikely to have them all together and even if you had them unlikely to play all three

 

[silentstriker]

If one simply HAS to choose a side from these I will probably choose the following twelve.

Gavaskar
Hanif
Hazare
Tendulkar
Miandad/Zaheer
Dravid
Mankad
Imran (captain)
Kapil
Bari
Wasim/Waqar
Murali

Its a great batting side. has Three new ball bowlers and two spinners. Two of these five bowlers are genuine all rounders with multiple test hundreds. A great keeper in Bari and a dynamic captain in Imran (except the problems he may have with Miandad and even Gavaskar one suspects)

I would probably take out Mankad, and put in both Wasim and Waqar. And Hazare would probably become the 12th man.

 

[Fusion]

GREAT thread! My team of twelve (which is probably titled more towards the recent players):

Gavaskar
Hanif
Tendulkar
Miandad
Dravid
Inzi
Imran (c)
Kapil
Bari (w)
Wasim
Waqar
Murli

 

[a massive zebra]

Gavaskar
Merchant
Dravid
Tendulkar
Miandad
Sangakarra (w)
Imran (c)
Kapil
Wasim
Waqar
Murali

 

[FRAZ]

TBH with all of you ,I guess I will never ever pick up the players from pre 80's. Although there wewre greats but those were for those times. They cannot take the pressure of the current game .They are not physicaly fit either.

 

[silentstriker]

TBH with all of you ,I guess I will never ever pick up the players from pre 80's. Although there wewre greats but those were for those times. They cannot take the pressure of the current game .They are not physicaly fit either.

100% of players pre-1980 were fitter than Inzamam Ul-Haq.

 

[FRAZ]

100% of players pre-1980 were fitter than Inzamam Ul-Haq.

Ha Ha
funny

 

[Anil]

Test

Gavaskar
H Mohammed
Dravid
Tendulkar
Miandad
Dev
Bari
Khan
Akram
Waqar
Murali

One day

Tendulkar
Ganguly
Miandad
Abbas
Inzi
Khan
Bari
Dev
Akram
Waqar
Murali

 

[SJS]

Fusion, AMZ, Anil have all chosen great sides. The difference is minor and doesnt take away much from one team or the other. The only choice that rankles is Sangakarra's as a wicket keeper in AMZ'z team. There is no way he would get into an all time sub-continent side ahead of Bari or Kirmani for that matter.

Its great to see someone chosing Merchant. Absolute fantastic player by all accounts. I intend writing an article on him one of these days. Not many people seem to realise how good he was as a batsman.

 

[SJS]

Test

Gavaskar
H Mohammed
Dravid
Tendulkar
Miandad
Dev
Bari
Khan
Akram
Waqar
Murali

One day

Tendulkar
Ganguly
Miandad
Abbas
Inzi
Khan
Bari
Dev
Akram
Waqar
Murali

I would seriously consider R.G. 'Bapu' Nadkarni for the one day side. He was easily one of the games most economical bowlers of all time, had a test century to his credit and was an absolutely brillant and world class fielder.

I am also not so sure of Inzy's place in an all time one day side. I could think of Azhar, Asif Iqbal, Saleem 'cheater' Malik as possible candidates.

 

[adharcric]

Gavaskar
Hanif
Dravid
Tendulkar
Miandad
Mankad
Imran
Kapil
Wasim
Bari
Murali
Reserves: Waqar, Chandra/Bedi, Abbas/Hazare/Merchant

 

[Goughy]

Fusion, AMZ, Anil have all chosen great sides. The difference is minor and doesnt take away much from one team or the other. The only choice that rankles is Sangakarra's as a wicket keeper in AMZ'z team. There is no way he would get into an all time sub-continent side ahead of Bari or Kirmani for that matter.

Its great to see someone chosing Merchant. Absolute fantastic player by all accounts. I intend writing an article on him one of these days. Not many people seem to realise how good he was as a batsman.

Well I chose Merchant in post 4 of this thread

Its interesting that the Englishman (me) is the only one to choose Engineer as the keeper. I guess his reputation in the UK was enhanced by his long and successful stint in County Cricket.