• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

England's preoccupation with the Ashes is harmful to Test cricket

Steulen

International Regular
After reading Paul Collingwood's current column on the BBC website (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/cricket/england/5165716.stm, you lazy gits), it again struck me how dominant the Ashes are in English cricket. Collingwood's column is another excellent example of an England cricketer making all the right noises ahead of a Test series against good opposition, only to insert the large but (no pun intended) "of course the Ashes are already in the back of my mind".

England bowlers can miss a whole English summer as long as they are fit for the Ashes etc. etc. It's the only series that really counts, it seems. This problem may well be at the heart of the current decline of Test cricket. A number of countries are none too enthusiastic about playing Tests as it is (Pakistan: would be nice to play in front of an audience for a change; India: doesn't make us money; Windies: we're crap at it, NZ: we could play 20 Twenty20's at the same time), and with England not even pretending to attach full value to playing Test cricket against others than Australia, there's not much left in favour of the five-day game.

The bad thing is, this mentality is shared by players, management, journalists and supporters alike.

If this mindset continues, The Ashes will soon become an anachronism, a biannual re-enactment of Gettysburg and Waterloo including the funny clothing, while the rest of the world watches baseball and Twenty20.

If England want to preserve Test cricket as we know it, they better start by thinking about the next series to come. Then, only when they look at the calendar and see, by golly, it's Australia next, can they start using Ashes every other sentence again.

Discuss :)
 

SpeedKing

U19 Vice-Captain
We are too preoccuied with the Ashes, we always have been. Last time round, even from the South African tour, we were already looking forward to the Ashes. and to say the truth, most countries do sort of look forward when they are bout to play the Aussies. But in our case, considering the run we have had over the last few series, we could do away with that distraction.

THE AUSSIES SEEM TO BE PREOCCUPIED AS WELL

http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/australia/content/current/story/252912.html
 

andyc

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I think it's more just to do with the history of the Ashes, and the fact that kids from either country are brought up learning about the Australia-England rivalry. Naturally, that attracts more fans, and more attention, than some random test series that England has to play under the FTP. It just has more meaning.

Edit: Just found this article, which seems to be talking a little bit about the same thing, that England are focusing too much on the Ashes and not the upcoming series. You can bet your bottom dollar, though, that the Australian selectors will be thinking of the Ashes as well come the Champion's Trophy.
 
Last edited:

pskov

International 12th Man
This whole Australian summer, the Aussies seemed to have at least half an eye on the Ashes too. There was a lot of talk about finding the right balance for the Ashes, trying out players to see if they deserve a shot in the Ashes etc. Quite simply, the Ashes is the biggest series in the sport, only Pakistan vs India even comes close, so it's understandable that it is a big focus for both teams, especially considering the huge shake up that happened last time around.
 

Dasa

International Vice-Captain
The Ashes may be a big series, but it seems a bit like the English aren't really giving other teams the respect they deserve because they're so preoccupied with the Ashes. I don't think the Aussies are the same in that regard at all - they're still treating every Test match pretty seriously and you don't always hear talk of the Ashes when they're playing other teams.
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
There's nothing wrong with hyping up a big series, and obviously it turned out to be a huge success for cricket in general last year. I do agree however that if it leads to you writing off other significant series well before the big one because you are just preparing for the Ashes, it's a problem. If it was Bangladesh a month before Australia like last time, that's fine, but Pakistan four months out is a bit absurd.

Over here, there's been a bit of the "eye to the Ashes" stuff over the last couple of seasons, but I think there's less of it, and it's not harming Australia's performance or the attendances or interest in our games, so I don't think it's really such a problem. I think the last series before the Ashes last time, against New Zealand, did have a bit of a "warmup" feel about it, but in reality Australia didn't change their playing style or their selection policies or anything, so there wasn't a huge difference.

I think this time it's been fairly reasonable in Australia, and Australia's players seemed pretty focused on South Africa, and even said that was the first concern when interviewed and so on. Part of that might be beacause Australia lost last time. The desire to win back the Ashes is there, but before that could be done Australia needed to turn things around in general. The aim of the Australian team was to recover from the England loss and rebuild the side, and they did that fairly successfully. It was only when Bangladesh came along that we got some of the "looking forward to this being over so we can rest up and prepare for the Ashes" stuff in interviews.
 

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
It may well be harmful to England's test performances, but there's no evidence at all that it's harming test cricket as a whole. I'm sure that followers of Pakistan & England were delighted with England's performances last year and a couple of months ago.

Still always convenient to blame us, I suppose ......

EDIT
Should have read "Pakistan & Sri Lanka .."
 
Last edited:

swede

School Boy/Girl Captain
It isnt quite normal circumsatnces.

The ashes is the biggest series + England won it for the first time in a long time + Australia are the top team to beat for anyone + the last series was incredibly tight and hard fought + the return series was scheduled for just 1 year later + massive public interest in that series from both sides, not least Australia where they consider it the biggest summer of cricket in their history.

Perhaps the ashes scheduling should be considered. technically its every other year, but in reality it varies from 1 year to 2½ years.

Even so, I cant see that its all about the ashes. Pakistan will play to full houses in england, something they probably dont do anywhere else.

There is, though, probably a growing apathy towards ODI cricket, but inst that just a cause for celebration
 

Top_Cat

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Yeah I tend to agree with those who are saying that it seems to be an English pre-occupation more than an Aussie one. At least Australia have won everything else since the Ashes and it's why England can't claim to be on par as a team with the Aussies; they may have beaten the Aussies but they've literally not won a Test series since against weaker opposition. Certainly it's been most apparent in this series against SL; the Test series they should have won comfortably was drawn (a side where the top batsman's average for the series is around 38 shouldn't even challenege you if you're a decent Test side) and in picking third-string players in the ODI's, they were rightly spanked 5-0.

I'm not putting all of their ills down to this but Simon Jones is has been a huge loss. Not just because he was bowling well but because he's the only really frighteningly aggressive quickie in the side. Harmi has his moments but he has long period of appearing quite meek too. Freddie has the killer instinct in some ways but he hasn't been able to exercise it due to a bowling workload which no-one capable of bowling 90mph+ should have to bear. Simon Jones was a barometer of the side and when the side was doing well, he was all over the Aussies. And when not doing well, he was the spark.

The batting overall has been okay but the bowling by England since the Ashes, particularly the pace bowling, has been pretty awful. The Test bowling has been poor but the ODI bowling has been really, really bad. If you want to pinpoint a reason why England can't win a series right now, there it is. Nothing sort of a series win against Pakistan will do before the Ashes.
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I think this sort of prioritising is inevitable when you cram so many series in. It is impossible for any side to play full out for so much of the year, so players look for the games that mean the most to them.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
Scaly piscine said:
I think this sort of prioritising is inevitable when you cram so many series in. It is impossible for any side to play full out for so much of the year, so players look for the games that mean the most to them.

So if there was only one series between the two Ashes, England would all of a sudden care about that series?


I said this a long time ago, England are too preoccupied with the Ashes...and it is hurting cricket in general. Its mostly hurting England, but England are a huge part of the cricket world and its important to have a strong and focused English team for the good of cricket.
 

Steulen

International Regular
Scaly piscine said:
I think this sort of prioritising is inevitable when you cram so many series in. It is impossible for any side to play full out for so much of the year, so players look for the games that mean the most to them.
That may be the reason, but when it means an England cricketer thinking of Australia when he's due to play Pakistan this month, it's really unhealthy.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
Steulen said:
That may be the reason, but when it means an England cricketer thinking of Australia when he's due to play Pakistan this month, it's really unhealthy.

And you will never be close to the best side in the world thinking like that. And there's an important distinction between Australia and England...whatever their priorities: they win. And they keep winning. England on the other hand, do everything but win. This whole 'out of the ashes', or 'fit for the ashes' is ******** business. Most important thing right now for England is to be fit for Pakistan.
 

Kweek

Cricketer Of The Year
not to bad for a dutchy Steulen :p

I agree, England are to busy with the ashes...but hey...it was a damn fine good series last time round, So i can imagine why they are so busy with it already.
 

Fusion

Global Moderator
Kweek said:
not to bad for a dutchy Steulen :p

I agree, England are to busy with the ashes...but hey...it was a damn fine good series last time round, So i can imagine why they are so busy with it already.

It was a great series. And yes, no one is saying England should not look forward to the next one. However, Eng have a HOME series against a side that they haven't beaten at home in ages. I think there should be a matter of pride involved. Why focus on the Ashes if you can't defend your own back yard against a weaker side than Aus? I would think England's top priority should be to win this series and only then worry about the next one.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
silentstriker said:
And you will never be close to the best side in the world thinking like that. And there's an important distinction between Australia and England...whatever their priorities: they win. And they keep winning. England on the other hand, do everything but win. This whole 'out of the ashes', or 'fit for the ashes' is ******** business. Most important thing right now for England is to be fit for Pakistan.
Actually, when we drew with India many of us were almost as happy as we were when we won The Ashes. Backs to the wall stuff, led by your national hero, there is nothing us English like more than what went down in Mumbai.

And in Collingwood's defence, well he's only being honest, of course The Ashes are at the back of his mind, he only played a small part last time out, but if he puts in the 50s and 100s against Pakistan, then he knows he is on the plane to Aus in November, and don't even try and tell me that that wouldn't be at the back of any of your minds if you were an English cricketer.

Oh, and I suppose when Gillespie got recalled to play Bangladesh, he wasn't thinking about what a good performance would do for his Ashes hopes?

You can all blame the English for all the things you want, be it the advent of Twenty20, the decline of Test Cricket, simple fact is, the Ashes of 05 were the best thing to happen in Cricket for years, and this winter's could follow suit, so the English preoccupation with The Ashes is obviously good for Test Cricket.

Pakistani and Indian flat pitches, West Indies being **** poor away from home, Bangladesh not being Test standard, South Africa's poor attendances and New Zealand not playing it are what's harmful for Test Cricket. The Ashes, are not.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
GeraintIsMyHero said:
And in Collingwood's defence, well he's only being honest, of course The Ashes are at the back of his mind, he only played a small part last time out, but if he puts in the 50s and 100s against Pakistan, then he knows he is on the plane to Aus in November, and don't even try and tell me that that wouldn't be at the back of any of your minds if you were an English cricketer.
But they play like they aren't, and thats what counts.


GeraintIsMyHero said:
Oh, and I suppose when Gillespie got recalled to play Bangladesh, he wasn't thinking about what a good performance would do for his Ashes hopes?
He was most likely thinking what a good performance would do for his test career. Thats the difference, there's more to a test career than the Ashes.


GeraintIsMyHero said:
You can all blame the English for all the things you want, be it the advent of Twenty20, the decline of Test Cricket, simple fact is, the Ashes of 05 were the best thing to happen in Cricket for years,
Yes, it was.


GeraintIsMyHero said:
and this winter's could follow suit, so the English preoccupation with The Ashes is obviously good for Test Cricket.
Yes, it could follow suit, but the chances of such things happening twice in a row are quite low. So most likely it'll be dissapointing and people will go back to not caring. A healthy result would have been more interest for cricket in general. Instead, I fear what you have is more temporary interest in the Ashes only, and when that interest fails to hold if the series is dissapointing....well thats not very good for cricket.

Pakistani and Indian flat pitches,
Being friendly to spinners does not necessarily equate to a bad pitch. No difference from a bunch of pitches around the world that aid fast bowling.

West Indies being **** poor away from home, Bangladesh not being Test standard, South Africa's poor attendances and New Zealand not playing it are what's harmful for Test Cricket. The Ashes, are not.
Those are also bad for test cricket, its not an exclusive thing. I am just saying that 'Ashes are everything and bugger the rest' is not good for cricket in general, however good it is at temporarily increasing the anticipation of one series.
 

Top