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Thread: England's preoccupation with the Ashes is harmful to Test cricket

  1. #16
    Cricketer Of The Year Kweek's Avatar
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    not to bad for a dutchy Steulen

    I agree, England are to busy with the ashes...but hey...it was a damn fine good series last time round, So i can imagine why they are so busy with it already.
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    Global Moderator Fusion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kweek
    not to bad for a dutchy Steulen

    I agree, England are to busy with the ashes...but hey...it was a damn fine good series last time round, So i can imagine why they are so busy with it already.

    It was a great series. And yes, no one is saying England should not look forward to the next one. However, Eng have a HOME series against a side that they haven't beaten at home in ages. I think there should be a matter of pride involved. Why focus on the Ashes if you can't defend your own back yard against a weaker side than Aus? I would think England's top priority should be to win this series and only then worry about the next one.

  3. #18
    Hall of Fame Member Sanz's Avatar
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    More than anything, it is harmful to their own cricket.

  4. #19
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker
    And you will never be close to the best side in the world thinking like that. And there's an important distinction between Australia and England...whatever their priorities: they win. And they keep winning. England on the other hand, do everything but win. This whole 'out of the ashes', or 'fit for the ashes' is ******** business. Most important thing right now for England is to be fit for Pakistan.
    Actually, when we drew with India many of us were almost as happy as we were when we won The Ashes. Backs to the wall stuff, led by your national hero, there is nothing us English like more than what went down in Mumbai.

    And in Collingwood's defence, well he's only being honest, of course The Ashes are at the back of his mind, he only played a small part last time out, but if he puts in the 50s and 100s against Pakistan, then he knows he is on the plane to Aus in November, and don't even try and tell me that that wouldn't be at the back of any of your minds if you were an English cricketer.

    Oh, and I suppose when Gillespie got recalled to play Bangladesh, he wasn't thinking about what a good performance would do for his Ashes hopes?

    You can all blame the English for all the things you want, be it the advent of Twenty20, the decline of Test Cricket, simple fact is, the Ashes of 05 were the best thing to happen in Cricket for years, and this winter's could follow suit, so the English preoccupation with The Ashes is obviously good for Test Cricket.

    Pakistani and Indian flat pitches, West Indies being **** poor away from home, Bangladesh not being Test standard, South Africa's poor attendances and New Zealand not playing it are what's harmful for Test Cricket. The Ashes, are not.
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  5. #20
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeraintIsMyHero

    And in Collingwood's defence, well he's only being honest, of course The Ashes are at the back of his mind, he only played a small part last time out, but if he puts in the 50s and 100s against Pakistan, then he knows he is on the plane to Aus in November, and don't even try and tell me that that wouldn't be at the back of any of your minds if you were an English cricketer.
    But they play like they aren't, and thats what counts.


    Quote Originally Posted by GeraintIsMyHero
    Oh, and I suppose when Gillespie got recalled to play Bangladesh, he wasn't thinking about what a good performance would do for his Ashes hopes?
    He was most likely thinking what a good performance would do for his test career. Thats the difference, there's more to a test career than the Ashes.


    Quote Originally Posted by GeraintIsMyHero
    You can all blame the English for all the things you want, be it the advent of Twenty20, the decline of Test Cricket, simple fact is, the Ashes of 05 were the best thing to happen in Cricket for years,
    Yes, it was.


    Quote Originally Posted by GeraintIsMyHero
    and this winter's could follow suit, so the English preoccupation with The Ashes is obviously good for Test Cricket.
    Yes, it could follow suit, but the chances of such things happening twice in a row are quite low. So most likely it'll be dissapointing and people will go back to not caring. A healthy result would have been more interest for cricket in general. Instead, I fear what you have is more temporary interest in the Ashes only, and when that interest fails to hold if the series is dissapointing....well thats not very good for cricket.

    Pakistani and Indian flat pitches,
    Being friendly to spinners does not necessarily equate to a bad pitch. No difference from a bunch of pitches around the world that aid fast bowling.

    West Indies being **** poor away from home, Bangladesh not being Test standard, South Africa's poor attendances and New Zealand not playing it are what's harmful for Test Cricket. The Ashes, are not.
    Those are also bad for test cricket, its not an exclusive thing. I am just saying that 'Ashes are everything and bugger the rest' is not good for cricket in general, however good it is at temporarily increasing the anticipation of one series.
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  6. #21
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    Well to be fair, I don't think we do only care about The Ashes. Like I said, we were all bloody delighted when we beat India at Mumbai, it felt like a series win. Of course, such a monumental away result was linked to The Ashes, but that will always happen. But if The Ashes was all we cared about, would we have bothered playing Flintoff at all against Sri Lanka, would we not rest Pietersen for this Pakistan series because he has been injured and is our most destructive batsman, who has proved he can play McGrath and Warne?

    If the English only care about The Ashes, how come I couldn't get the tickets I wanted for the Pakistan series, and had to go on a different day in a different stand, and how come all the games are always sell-outs here?

    The Ashes is our priority, but so what? It doesn't mean that we won't be gutted if we lose to Pakistan. We want our team to be the best, and we want our team to regularly stuff the Aussies, but in this era the two are inextricably linked.

    You'e an India fan. When you guys get a good result in an ODI series in the final 12 months before a World Cup, it's the World Cup that's mentioned. The Ashes is our World Cup, we want to win everything, but we want The Ashes the most.

  7. #22
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    Good post, I do agree with pretty much everything you've said..

    Another thing, why is the Ashes always 5 tests yet Pakistan get only 3? In 5 years time, Pakistan and England could be stronger than Australia, yet will play less cricket together..
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  8. #23
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    They actually get 4

    Basically English summer can only fit in 7 Tests, so I think nowadays they try and schedule a weaker nation to play the first series when Aus/SA are in town. (Zimbabwe in 03, and Bangladesh last year) This means we play 2 Tests against the weaker nation, then 5 against our long-standing rivals.

    But whenever we don't play Aus/SA we play 4 against one side and 3 agaisnt another. Next summer (I think) we play India 3 times, and WI 4 times. I would personally prefer it to be the other way round, but I think that's another tradition.

    Still, at least we are playing a proper length series against Pakistan this time. In 2001, they came in Ashes year and only got 2 Tests. Hopefully we will continue to play weaker nations in these years in the future as I have already said.

  9. #24
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    I'm not sure our preoccupation is harmful to test cricket per se, both our winter series were pretty decent affairs even if we didn't win either. The Sri Lankan series was disappointing, with our shoddy performances seemingly met with a shrug & a "we'll probably win anyway" kinda attitude right up until we lost the 3rd test.

    I do think our obsession is probably harmful to our test team tho. The thought seems to be that all the cricket our test squad plays (in whatever format) is mere preparation for The Ashes. Contrast that with the typical ruthless efficiency shown by our once & future oppo since the last get-together. The Aussies' preparation seems to be getting back into their temporarily misplaced winning ways, I'm not sure I'd even diginfy ours with a unifying philosphy!
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    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Langeveldt
    Good post, I do agree with pretty much everything you've said..

    Another thing, why is the Ashes always 5 tests yet Pakistan get only 3? In 5 years time, Pakistan and England could be stronger than Australia, yet will play less cricket together..
    because most English cricket suppoeters would rather see 5 tests vs Australia and only 3 tests vs Pakistan...
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  11. #26
    International Regular Steulen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swervy
    because most English cricket suppoeters would rather see 5 tests vs Australia and only 3 tests vs Pakistan...
    Another example of the unhealthiness being discussed here
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  12. #27
    International Coach adharcric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steulen
    Another example of the unhealthiness being discussed here
    I'd rather see India play 5 against the Aussies and none against Sri Lanka as well (provided we don't really suck) ... just because they are the champions.

  13. #28
    International Regular Steulen's Avatar
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  14. #29
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend andyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steulen
    Gosh, way to miss the 5th post
    Quote Originally Posted by flibbertyjibber View Post
    Only a bunch of convicts having been beaten 3-0 and gone 9 tests without a win and won just 1 in 11 against England could go into the home series saying they will win. England will win in Australia again this winter as they are a better side which they have shown this summer. 3-0 doesn't lie girls.

  15. #30
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adharcric
    I'd rather see India play 5 against the Aussies and none against Sri Lanka as well (provided we don't really suck) ... just because they are the champions.
    Not none, that's silly. But point taken.
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