Cricinfo Article

[Xuhaib]

http://content-pak.cricinfo.com/wisdenalmanack/content/story/252265.html

Being religous is a player's own personal matter, if religon is bringing togetherness in the team and if the player feels it makes him a better individual then he should be allowed to practice it without getting scrutinized by the media.

 

[BoyBrumby]

There was an article in last week's Obsever Sport Monthly about the dual identities of British Pakistanis by Ziauddin Sardar that briefly touched on the same ground. He seems to suggest than Youhana's conversion was at least partly motivated out of his desire to captain his country:

Yousuf Yohanna, one of the best batsmen and until recently the only Christian in the team, converted to Islam and changed his name to Mohammad Yousuf last year. Pakistani commentators have argued that his conversion may have something to do with the fact that he was treated like a pariah in the dressing room, eating and drinking separately from the rest of the team. I suspect that his ambition to captain an explicitly Muslim team left him no choice but to jettison his faith.

Full article here:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/story/0,,1807026,00.html

 

[Xuhaib]

There was an article in last week's Obsever Sport Monthly about the dual identities of British Pakistanis by Ziauddin Sardar that briefly touched on the same ground. He seems to suggest than Youhana's conversion was at least partly motivated out of his desire to captain his country:

Yousuf Yohanna, one of the best batsmen and until recently the only Christian in the team, converted to Islam and changed his name to Mohammad Yousuf last year. Pakistani commentators have argued that his conversion may have something to do with the fact that he was treated like a pariah in the dressing room, eating and drinking separately from the rest of the team. I suspect that his ambition to captain an explicitly Muslim team left him no choice but to jettison his faith.

Full article here:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/story/0,,1807026,00.html

No way.

I dont think anyone in Pak cricket regards Yousuf as a captaincy material and i am sure even Yousuf is aware of this . If you look at Yousuf closely you will realize that he has turned in to an extreamly devout Muslim and if he would have converted due to captaincy ambitions then im sure he would not have gone to such extream.

 

[BoyBrumby]

No way.

I dont think anyone in Pak cricket regards Yousuf as a captaincy material and i am sure even Yousuf is aware of this . If you look at Yousuf closely you will realize that he has turned in to an extreamly devout Muslim and if he would converted due to captaincy ambitions then im sure he would not have gone to such extream.

You obviously know more about it than me.

Just that particular writer's take on it. I don't like to argue about religion or politics as no good usually comes of it & this topic kinda touches on both.

(walks quietly away....)

 

[Autobahn]

Plus anyway isn't it kind of etablished that Younis Khan is the next in-line for the captaincy?

 

[Fusion]

I agree that Yousaf never had the confidence of the powers-that-be of being captaincy material. His religion had nothing to do with it. In fact I can argue that a Christian leading the Pak team would have been a PR boost for the PCB. In any case, that issue didn't play a part in who gets the future captaincy role after Inzi.
It is interesting to observe the role of religion on the Pak team. As the article pointed out, the team has definately turned toward religion in a big way. I think I can trace this back to Saeed Anwar and the tragic loss of his daughter. He, along with others like Mushtaq, Saqlain, Inzi etc, became extremely religious soon thereafter. I do echo Xuhaib that it's the player's personal right to practice their religion as they see fit and the media should stay out of it. Provided that there isn't a hostile environment for non-Muslims (and going from statements of Kaneria and Woolmer there isn't), the whole thing is a non-issue.

 

[Xuhaib]

Plus anyway isn't it kind of etablished that Younis Khan is the next in-line for the captaincy?

Yes Younis is the definate next captain with Shoaib Malik taking over the vice- captaincy.

Regarding Yousuf, he was never next in line skipper and those people who have come up with the statements that he converted just for captaincy should not be commenting as they most probably have no idea of what is going in a certain celebrity's personal life.

 

[bagapath]

http://content-pak.cricinfo.com/wisdenalmanack/content/story/252265.html

Being religous is a player's own personal matter, if religon is bringing togetherness in the team and if the player feels it makes him a better individual then he should be allowed to practice it without getting scrutinized by the media.

Well said, Xuhaib. I think it is indecent to comment on religion.

At the same time I feel I dont like to see "in your face" kind of religious practices in certain spheres of life - sports being the main one. I dont like to hear religous or racial talk from sportsmen in the playing field. They have every right to practice their religion. But if I need any religious advice I would go to a learned person in that religion, not to a sportsman. I would say - Show me good cricket and please practice your religion outside the playing arena. All are equal here. Only the talent matters. Whatever your inner drive is - religion, fame, money, patriotic pride - dont show it to me. it narrows down my opinion of you. I want to like you for your cricket, irrespective of your other choices in life.

anyways, our religion is cricket and we shall stick to it with pride

 

[Goughy]

Full article here:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/story/0,,1807026,00.html

What a bad article. Poorly thought out, badly reasoned and weakly argued.

On topic,
Taken from the Wisden/Cricinfo article-
http://content-pak.cricinfo.com/wisdenalmanack/content/story/252265.html

Rare today in Pakistani cricket is the public soundbite, or even private utterance, not bracketed by bismillah (in the name of Allah) or inshallah (God willing).

Religion is something I may not understand but I am obviously content for people to follow their own needs and and follow the path they desire.

I personnally don't take any offence to the above quote (why would I), but as soon as you start mentioning and verbalising your beliefs in the media then it becomes public property with others having a right to reply and comment on. There may not be anything wrong with these type of comments but if it is verbalised publicly then others in the public arena can make their own statements, including the media.

There is nothing wrong with having any form of religious belief but it can only stay a personal thing if it 'stays a personal thing' rather than broadcast.

Living in the States I used to laugh at all the hard-core Christian guys who whenever the did any thing, began the interview with "I want to thank God for giving me the talent to make this happen", "Jesus Christ the Saviour saved my life and led me to this success" etc.

To someone like myself if find this mentioning of God very in your face and off putting and I believe I have the right to judge and make comments on words directed publicly. My thoughts are nothing to do with any particular religion. Christianity, Islam, Hindu etc, people can take their pick and good luck to them. My issues are the verbalisation of these views and when these public proclomations occur others have the right to reply.

 

[Xuhaib]

What a bad article. Poorly thought out, badly reasoned and weakly argued.

On topic,
Taken from the Wisden/Cricinfo article-
http://content-pak.cricinfo.com/wisdenalmanack/content/story/252265.html



Religion is something I may not understand but I am obviously content for people to follow their own needs and and follow the path they desire.

I personnally don't take any offence to the above quote (why would I), but as soon as you start mentioning and verbalising your beliefs in the media then it becomes public property with others having a right to reply and comment on. There may not be anything wrong with these type of comments but if it is verbalised publicly then others in the public arena can make their own statements, including the media.

There is nothing wrong with having any form of religious belief but it can only stay a personal thing if it 'stays a personal thing' rather than broadcast.

Living in the States I used to laugh at all the hard-core Christian guys who whenever the did any thing, began the interview with "I want to thank God for giving me the talent to make this happen", "Jesus Christ the Saviour saved my life and led me to this success" etc.

To someone like myself if find this mentioning of God very in your face and off putting and I believe I have the right to judge and make comments on words directed publicly. My thoughts are nothing to do with any particular religion. Christianity, Islam, Hindu etc, people can take their pick and good luck to them. My issues are the verbalisation of these views and when these public proclomations occur others have the right to reply.

Goughy, these words inshallah and mashallah have nothing to do with in your face islamic extremism.In most of the islamic world they are used as a comman day to day conversational phrases, i use them often and i can assure you i am quite a moderate muslim, you can say its like saying "hopefully we will win" or "Inshallah we will win".Both phrases mean the exact same thing its just that saying inshallah gives us a greater sense of security.

I think people from the west should be more open minded and accept that for muslims religon is a very important part of life and they should refrain from sterotyping a certain individual.I remember once Saeed Anwar was very upset as repeatedley during one of the matches against Australia he was called Usama by some of the aussie players that is the sort of behaviour that should be condemmed.

 

[Goughy]

Goughy, these words inshallah and mashallah have nothing to do with in your face islamic extremism.In most of the islamic world they are used as a comman day to day conversational phrases, i use them often and i can assure you i am quite a moderate muslim, you can say its like saying "hopefully we will win" or "Inshallah we will win".Both phrases mean the exact same thing its just that saying inshallah gives us a greater sense of security.

I think people from the west should be more open minded and accept that for muslims religon is a very important part of life and they should refrain from sterotyping a certain individual.I remember once Saeed Anwar was very upset as repeatedley during one of the matches against Australia he was called Usama by some of the aussie players that is the sort of behaviour that should be condemmed.

I think you misunderstand me. It has nothing to do with Islam. As I said I feel the same way about Christianity. Should people like me 'in the West' be more open minded about Christianity as well? or should you be more open-minded about the fact that some people don't like religion generally being mentioned in every day life rather than people keeping it to their private lives?

EDIT- I never mentioned Islamic extremism. What I was saying is that people cannot make public comments about God and religion without the public (press included) being able to and having the right to make comments back.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I wish to make it expressly clear before I say what I'm about to say that I am not drawing any parallels between what went on in SA & Inzamam's Pakistan, but South Africa under Cronje did have a religious core too, albeit a Dutch Reform Church one. I think I can recall some of the more secular players (Cullinan, was one IIRC) disparagingly commenting that it was like "joining the moonies" when going on national duty.

I mention this only because the two teams share a coach in common. Is it possible Woolmer sees a virtue in a common religion uniting the core of his teams? Just a thought.

 

[Fusion]

I wish to make it expressly clear before I say what I'm about to say that I am not drawing any parallels between what went on in SA & Inzamam's Pakistan, but South Africa under Cronje did have a religious core too, albeit a Dutch Reform Church one. I think I can recall some of the more secular players (Cullinan, was one IIRC) disparagingly commenting that it was like "joining the moonies" when going on national duty.

I mention this only because the two teams share a coach in common. Is it possible Woolmer sees a virtue in a common religion uniting the core of his teams? Just a thought.

That's an interesting observation. I initially had the same thoughts. However, in reading Woolmer's response to questions about religion on his website, he made it clear that he considered religion a personal matter and himself only believed in the "religion of cricket". Of course, that does not mean he minds the uniting power that religion can bring to a team.

 

[Xuhaib]

I wish to make it expressly clear before I say what I'm about to say that I am not drawing any parallels between what went on in SA & Inzamam's Pakistan, but South Africa under Cronje did have a religious core too, albeit a Dutch Reform Church one. I think I can recall some of the more secular players (Cullinan, was one IIRC) disparagingly commenting that it was like "joining the moonies" when going on national duty.

I mention this only because the two teams share a coach in common. Is it possible Woolmer sees a virtue in a common religion uniting the core of his teams? Just a thought.

I think the religon culture was established well before Woolmer became the coach. It was Saeed Anwar who got the ball rolling but im quite sure Woolmer encourages it since it brings unity within the team.

 

[Xuhaib]

I wish to make it expressly clear before I say what I'm about to say that I am not drawing any parallels between what went on in SA & Inzamam's Pakistan, but South Africa under Cronje did have a religious core too, albeit a Dutch Reform Church one. I think I can recall some of the more secular players (Cullinan, was one IIRC) disparagingly commenting that it was like "joining the moonies" when going on national duty.

I mention this only because the two teams share a coach in common. Is it possible Woolmer sees a virtue in a common religion uniting the core of his teams? Just a thought.

I think the religon culture was established well before Woolmer became the coach. It was Saeed Anwar who got the ball rolling but im quite sure Woolmer encourages it since it brings unity within the team.