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Cricket Web Survivor - Week 1. Vote for the one to be kicked out.

Paid The Umpire

All Time Legend
Here is the deal. The poll is designed to find out who has been the greatest Fast bowler of the last 20ish years.

What you do is choose who you think should not be on this list. If you don't think P. Umpire should be there, then vote for him. Week 2 will be announced on October 19.

The original list is as follows:
R. Hadlee (NZ)
Wasim Akram (PAK)
C. Ambrose (WI)
G. McGrath (AUS)
M. Marshall (WI)
W. Younis (PAK)
DK. Lillee (AUS)
A. Donald (SA)
J. Garner (WI)
M. Holding (WI)

Let the worst player, lose.
 

Gotchya

State Vice-Captain
Really tough one, again what are the chances the result wont be biased :) ofcourse i'll vote for players i haven't had the privilege to watch
 

Anil

Hall of Fame Member
Wow! Somebody actually voted for Lillee to be kicked out of that big list!
 

Anil

Hall of Fame Member
...and why have you excluded Andy Roberts?


[Edited on 10/9/2002 by anilramavarma]
 

Rik

Cricketer Of The Year
Yup I voted for Lillee, too much mouth and not as impressive as Hadlee!
 

Gotchya

State Vice-Captain
Yup I voted for Lillee, too much mouth and not as impressive as Hadlee!
Its about time we realised that its part and parcel for fast aggressive bowlers to be in your face, thats the way these guyz play their game and its perfectly acceptable. He was a great bowler, a model for his time...............

ofocurse its ur own opinion, but its a bit off the edge calling him a mouth, outright unfair.

[Edited on 9/10/2002 by Gotchya]
 

Rik

Cricketer Of The Year
I was talking more about what he recently said about the English pace attack, but also I just rate Hadlee more, better average and took more wickets too.

[Edited on 9/10/2002 by Rik]
 

aussie_beater

State Vice-Captain
Originally posted by Rik
I was talking more about what he recently said about the English pace attack, but also I just rate Hadlee more, better average and took more wickets too.

[Edited on 9/10/2002 by Rik]
Toss out Lilee ?? ...ahead of all the others in that list.Are you saying Glenn McGrath is better then Dennis Lilee ?
 

Rik

Cricketer Of The Year
Hadlee...more wickets, better average than Lillee...McGrath also has more wickets at a better average than Lillee...

Also although this is not the main reason why I voted for Lillee...he couldn't keep his mouth shut about England's chances so this would be quite a good way of shutting him up :lol:

[Edited on 9/10/2002 by Rik]
 

aussie_beater

State Vice-Captain
Originally posted by Rik
Also although this is not the main reason why I voted for Lillee...he couldn't keep his mouth shut about England's chances so this would be quite a good way of shutting him up :lol:

[Edited on 9/10/2002 by Rik]
Well, I am sure Lilee doesn't give a rat's whisker about that..... and so its better you save your non-cricketing bias and look at it from a cricketing perspective.

As for Lilee's comments there.... I think he was spot on, although I would love it if England can make him eat his words.
 

royGilchrist

State 12th Man
I think the criteria should be better spelled out.

Are we considering the peak of each bowler, which could mean a series, a year, two years, or the entire career. So for example, Walsh gives Holding a run for his money if we consider overall career, but there is no contest if we consider their peaks.

Is talent also part of the criteria, so for example Holding and Akram might beat out everyone else if we consider pure talent, but there others with bette accomplishments.

Why isnt Imran included in this list? Surely overall, Imran had a more accomplished career as a fast bowler than Garner.

Are we considering tests only, or both?
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
Originally posted by aussie_beater

<snip>

Well, I am sure Lilee doesn't give a rat's whisker about that..... and so its better you save your non-cricketing bias and look at it from a cricketing perspective.
Agreed. There was a thread where Dennis Lillee's cornflake-choking session was discussed.
 

Anil

Hall of Fame Member
Hadlee:

overall 86 matches 431 wickets 9/52(best inning figures) 15/123(best match figures) 22.30(average) 2.63(economy) 50.8(strike rate) 36(5 or more wickets in an innings) 9(10 wickets in a match)

Lillee:

overall 70 matches 355 wickets 7/83(best inning figures) 11/123(best match figures) 23.92(average) 2.75(economy) 52.0(strike rate) 23(5 or more wickets in an innings) 7(10 wickets in a match)

Marshall:

overall 81 matches 376 wickets 7/22(best inning figures) 11/89(best match figures) 20.94(average) 2.68(economy) 46.7(strike rate) 22(5 or more wickets in an innings) 4(10 wickets in a match)

Holding:

overall 60 matches 249 wickets 8/92(best inning figures) 14/149(best match figures) 23.68(average) 2.79(economy) 50.9(strike rate) 13(5 or more wickets in an innings) 2(10 wickets in a match)

Roberts:

overall 47 matches 202 wickets 7/54(best inning figures) 12/121(best match figures) 25.61(average) 2.78(economy) 55.1(strike rate) 11(5 or more wickets in an innings) 2(10 wickets in a match)

Ambrose:

overall 98 matches 405 wickets 8/45(best inning figures) 11/84(best match figures) 20.99(average) 2.30(economy) 54.5(strike rate) 22(5 or more wickets in an innings) 3(10 wickets in a match)

McGrath:

overall 85 matches 393 wickets 8/38(best inning figures) 10/27(best match figures) 21.88(average) 2.53(economy) 51.8(strike rate) 23(5 or more wickets in an innings) 3(10 wickets in a match)

Donald:

overall 72 matches 330 wickets 8/71(best inning figures) 12/139(best match figures) 22.25(average) 2.83(economy) 47.0(strike rate) 20(5 or more wickets in an innings) 3(10 wickets in a match)

Younis:

overall 81 matches 357 wickets 7/76(best inning figures) 13/135(best match figures) 23.15(average) 3.22(economy) 43.0(strike rate) 22(5 or more wickets in an innings) 5(10 wickets in a match)

Akram:

overall 104 matches 414 wickets 7/119(best inning figures) 11/110(best match figures) 23.62(average) 2.59(economy) 54.6(strike rate) 25(5 or more wickets in an innings) 5(10 wickets in a match)

Garner:

overall 58 matches 259 wickets 6/56(best inning figures) 9/108(best match figures) 20.97(average) 2.47(economy) 50.8(strike rate) 7(5 or more wickets in an innings) 0(10 wickets in a match)

Ranking on the basis of average:

1. Marshall
2. Garner
3. Ambrose
4. McGrath
5. Donald
6. Hadlee
7. Younis
8. Akram
9. Holding
10. Lillee
11. Roberts

Ranking on the basis of strike rate:

1. Younis
2. Marshall
3. Donald
4. Garner/Hadlee
6. Holding
7. McGrath
8. Lillee
9. Ambrose
10. Akram
11. Roberts

Ranking on the basis of economy:

1. Ambrose
2. Garner
3. McGrath
4. Akram
5. Hadlee
6. Marshall
7. Lillee
8. Roberts
9. Holding
10. Donald
11. Younis

Of course, there are so many other factors to be taken into account:

the conditions(pitch, weather) under which they played

the no: of home matches and the no: of away matches

the injuries they carried

the bowling attack they were part of

the captains they played under

etc, etc....

I just thought the above analysis could be a starting point.
 

royGilchrist

State 12th Man
Thanks for the post once again Anil :)

This puts things in perspective a bit. Although economy rate in tests is almost a non-factor atleast no where near as important as average and to some extent s/r. I think any captain will take the figures of 7/100 then 2/50.

Garner's average is quite astonishing, I did not realize that.

I will put Imran's stats up there as well soon, and Im sure he will be better than Roberts and Garner atleast.

From a cursory look at it, Marshall really comes across as the leader.

I have another idea, maybe it will be better to take away three worse years (most probably towards the end), of each bowler because some of these guys have dragged on their career, and subsequently have wrekced their averages. So for example, Ambrose and Akram are very similar bowlers overall, but Akram's last few years have tampered (no pun intended) his stats. Lille, Marshall, Ambrose all left cricket at the right time.
 

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