Old Vs New?

[Benny2k1]

After watching englands latest ODI catastrophe i was wondering is it worth bringing in some of the old guard into the squad?!, in the past year or two england have thrown in younger players into the ODI squad and to be honist they are like a fish out of water, Plunkett, Mahmood, Bresnen, Kabir, Loudon all good players im sure but are they good enough, would it be better to bring back the corks, goughs, hell maybe even hick, ramprakash they are all players having good seasons and would provide the up and comers a year to learn what international cricket is about, what is happening now is surley damaging there confidence?

Its all very well building a young side for the world cup, but we want to win the thing!

Young players should be braught in if they are having stand out seasons!!

so for the champions trophy my england squad:

Mal Loye
Marcus Trescothick
Andrew Strauss
Micheal Vaughan
Paul Collingwood
Kevin Peiterson
Andrew Flintoff
Chris Read
Dominic Cork
Steven Harmison
Ashley Giles
Darren Gough
Stuart Broad
Glenn Chappel
Monty Panasear

 

[steds]

Mal Loye
Marcus Trescothick
Andrew Strauss
Micheal Vaughan
Paul Collingwood
Kevin Peiterson
Andrew Flintoff
Chris Read
Dominic Cork
Steven Harmison
Ashley Giles
Darren Gough
Stuart Broad
Glenn Chappel
Monty Panasear

No way. Especially not Cork and Gough. Aren't particularly great County bowlers these days, never mind international ones.
I'm not even going to bother with the Read > Jones thing any more. The country wants a scapegoat, and they want Jones to be it. Not worth trying to fight his corner.
What makes you think Giles will be fit, too?

Edit: How will we be able to hide Panesar's fielding in an ODI, also?

 

[tooextracool]

Mal Loye
Marcus Trescothick
Andrew Strauss
Micheal Vaughan
Paul Collingwood
Kevin Peiterson
Andrew Flintoff
Chris Read
Dominic Cork
Steven Harmison
Ashley Giles
Darren Gough
Stuart Broad
Glenn Chappel
Monty Panasear

Panesar would be one of the stupidest selections possible IMO. Forget about the fact that he cant field or hold a bat, his bowling is so clearly not suited to the ODI form considering that he relies on flight rather than variation.
Strauss has played in over 50 ODIs now, and his average stands at 27.3 which is clearly not good enough.
Michael Vaughan's place in the ODI side was always under scrutiny, why on earth would you want him back especially when hes an injury liability?
Also i have to question why you wouldnt have Jamie Dalrymple in the squad. I dont know how long Anderson is out for, but if hes fit i think he should be in the squad. If experience is what they are looking for then i would consider forcing Nick Knight out of retirement, one of our best ODI players and his record in list A cricket since is astonishing:
http://www.cricketarchive.co.uk/Archive/Players/2/2216/a_Batting_by_Season.html

 

[Autobahn]

If experience is what they are looking for then i would consider forcing Nick Knight out of retirement, one of our best ODI players and his record in list A cricket since is astonishing:

You know that wouldn't be such a bad idea

 

[Autobahn]

No way. Especially not Cork and Gough. Aren't particularly great County bowlers these days, never mind international ones.
I'm not even going to bother with the Read > Jones thing any more. The country wants a scapegoat, and they want Jones to be it. Not worth trying to fight his corner.
What makes you think Giles will be fit, too?

Edit: How will we be able to hide Panesar's fielding in an ODI, also?

Gough would only be able to get back into if he turned himself into a defensive ODI bowler (i.e. late-era botham) and even then he wouldn't be first choice.

Read could really only get into the team only if plunkett's batting really came on leaps and bounds.

 

[tooextracool]

Gough would only be able to get back into if he turned himself into a defensive ODI bowler (i.e. late-era botham) and even then he wouldn't be first choice.

Read could really only get into the team only if plunkett's batting really came on leaps and bounds.

have u ever seen read bat?
not only is he a better ODI batsman than geraint jones, hes probably a far better player than about half of the other batsmen in the current english side.

 

[Autobahn]

have u ever seen read bat?
not only is he a better ODI batsman than geraint jones, hes probably a far better player than about half of the other batsmen in the current english side.

Maybe but when was the last time a team had a policy of regularly switching keepers for ODIs and Tests? because Read isn't really a test-level batsmen and i can't see any coach being happy with that situation.

But yeah Read's batting is better suited to the ODI, but i don't think fletcher sees it that and would probably only try it if he had a solid number 8.

We really miss Craig White.

 

[tooextracool]

Maybe but when was the last time a team had a policy of regularly switching keepers for ODIs and Tests? because Read isn't really a test-level batsmen and i can't see any coach being happy with that situation..

Gilchrist- Healy did it for years. its not significantly different from any other specialist test or ODI player doing it. Further i dont see why read shouldnt be in the test side as well. hes been consistently scoring runs for his county since he got dropped, and his batting has in all likelyhood improved since we last saw him. geraints batting or keeping havent been upto standard in tests have they?

We really miss Craig White.

indeed, craig white was a fine ODI bowler, even when he wasnt in his prime. he was probably robbed off being a great test match bowler thx to injury. i must say looking back to our side in the last world cup we had a decent nucleus:
trescothick,knight,hussain, vaughan, stewart,collingwood, flintoff, white,giles, caddick,anderson
certainly a far better side than the one we have now. a bit more luck and we might have actually gone much further in that world cup.

 

[Benny2k1]

Id still give Strauss some time, he made a cracking start to his international career.

Monty could be a good wepon in ODIs i think, my main point was tho do you think that the england selectors will ever go back to the goughs,caddicks, Ramprakash,Corks or will we keep throwing youngsters in.

I put read in the side because i think he deserves another chance, Shows how valuable alec stuart was for england

 

[tooextracool]

Monty could be a good wepon in ODIs i think, my main point was tho do you think that the england selectors will ever go back to the goughs,caddicks, Ramprakash,Corks or will we keep throwing youngsters in.

i dont think they will. The only person they might go back to is gough, and that will probably only happen just before the world cup.

 

[aussie]

If experience is what they are looking for then i would consider forcing Nick Knight out of retirement, one of our best ODI players and his record in list A cricket since is astonishing:
http://www.cricketarchive.co.uk/Archive/Players/2/2216/a_Batting_by_Season.html

Same here but would the selectors go back to him? and if if they did would he want to come back to international cricket for the world cup, its unlikely but surely wort a shot in this stuggling England ODI outfit.

have u ever seen read bat?
not only is he a better ODI batsman than geraint jones, hes probably a far better player than about half of the other batsmen in the current english side.Further i dont see why read shouldnt be in the test side as well. hes been consistently scoring runs for his county since he got dropped, and his batting has in all likelyhood improved since we last saw him. geraints batting or keeping havent been upto standard in tests have they?

Good to see someone else with good accolades for Read, i thought i was the only one.

 

[Autobahn]

Gilchrist- Healy did it for years. its not significantly different from any other specialist test or ODI player doing it. Further i dont see why read shouldnt be in the test side as well. hes been consistently scoring runs for his county since he got dropped, and his batting has in all likelyhood improved since we last saw him. geraints batting or keeping havent been upto standard in tests have they?



indeed, craig white was a fine ODI bowler, even when he wasnt in his prime. he was probably robbed off being a great test match bowler thx to injury. i must say looking back to our side in the last world cup we had a decent nucleus:
trescothick,knight,hussain, vaughan, stewart,collingwood, flintoff, white,giles, caddick,anderson
certainly a far better side than the one we have now. a bit more luck and we might have actually gone much further in that world cup.

Thanks TEC i didn't know about healy and gilly swapping places regularly.

3 things deined us going futher in the last world cup:

Bichel, Bevan and Zim

And in his bio Nasser thought Caddick wasn't the best ODI bowler as he had problems changing lengths.

But yes is suppose it's worth Read having another shot at the test team.

 

[tooextracool]

Thanks TEC i didn't know about healy and gilly swapping places regularly.

3 things deined us going futher in the last world cup:

Bichel, Bevan and Zim

i think the 2003 world cup in general was a very poor one. Not only was it affected by Zimbabwe and Kenya, but the conditions screwed several teams over- WI-B'desh, Eng-Pak, Eng-Ind. England only really had one game against an international class side that wasnt conditions affected- Australia and when you consider that they came closer than anyone else in the world cup to beating Australia, i can only say that things might have been very very different.

And in his bio Nasser thought Caddick wasn't the best ODI bowler as he had problems changing lengths..

Caddick wasnt a great ODI bowler no. Didnt have the variation and was one of the worst bowlers at the death due to a lack of a good yorker or slower ball. But for someone who could bowl line and length and get the ball to swing, Caddick did remarkable well and his record 28 @ 4 .01 speaks for itself.

 

[a massive zebra]

Strauss has played in over 50 ODIs now, and his average stands at 27.3 which is clearly not good enough.

It is actually in excess of 35.

 

[luckyeddie]

Strauss has played in over 50 ODIs now, and his average stands at 27.3 which is clearly not good enough.

That's his Twenty20 average

 

[tooextracool]

It is actually in excess of 35.

i think it goes without saying that ive excluded his record against bangladesh and zimbabwe.

 

[tooextracool]

That's his Twenty20 average

quite a coincidence that, but i was actually looking at his ODI average.

 

[a massive zebra]

In order to avoid accusations of deception, anyone that excludes minnow matches from overall figures should at least do the honest thing and admit such actions in their post. Also, even allowing for this adjustment your figure of 27.3 is still incorrect as Strauss' average excluding contests against the two weakest nations comes up at an admittedly unimpressive 29.35.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

In order to avoid accusations of deception, anyone that excludes minnow matches from overall figures should at least do the honest thing and admit such actions in their post. Also, even allowing for this adjustment your figure of 27.3 is still incorrect as Strauss' average excluding contests against the two weakest nations comes up at an admittedly unimpressive 29.35.

Exclude Ireland as well and it's 30.00.

 

[tooextracool]

In order to avoid accusations of deception, anyone that excludes minnow matches from overall figures should at least do the honest thing and admit such actions in their post. Also, even allowing for this adjustment your figure of 27.3 is still incorrect as Strauss' average excluding contests against the two weakest nations comes up at an admittedly unimpressive 29.35.

it is 29.35, it was an error on my part on doing the calculations. i stand by my opinion that i dont need to state that i have excluded zimbabwe and bangladesh because i believe that that should be the norm. I'd prefer it if people would state that they have included bangladesh and zimbabwe when they quote averages rather than the other way around, given that far too many players have their averages inflated against these 2 teams. Of course that is only my opinion but considering that i usually exclude bangladesh and zimbabwe when i quote averages anyways, i would have thought that people would have realised immediately on noticing the difference from his stated record that i had gotten rid of the minnows statistics.
As far as the mistake is concerned, it still does not change my argument, 29.35 or 30.00 is not deserving of a place in the side, and the fact that his record only gets worse when you look at his more recent performances(from 2005 onwards after which hes got worked out) does not help him