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Thread: Flintoff Showing Signs of Wear and Tear?

  1. #16
    Cricket Web Staff Member luckyeddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussie
    For a man who does so much bowling per test he should bot be batting in the top 6 at all even if he is capable of it. That poblem can be erradicated if England drop the spinner pick the extra bat thus allowing him to bowl as much as he can since he is undoubtebly Englands best bowler & bat at #7. Plus in a few ODI's he can be rested.

    But England management clearly don't want to take that option so Flintoff problems would persist unfortunately.
    Might I remind you that you need to take 20 wickets in order to win a test match?

    If England's 'Big 4' seam attack are all fit, then I might just agree with you a bit (that's because I'm being particularly charitable today).

    However, they are not, and with a seam attack that includes two out of the likes of Anderson, Plunkett, Mahmood and Lewis, there's no 'devil' in it, and precious little variation. Consequently, a spinner (and therefore 5 bowlers) is an absolute must. A few more weeks of this baking weather and I'd be advocating bringing Giles in AS WELL.
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  2. #17
    International Debutant Pedro Delgado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by open365
    I'm not suprised he has ankle trouble, he puts a massive amount of stress on it through delivery and he has his front foot pointed towards fine leg when he bowls which makes it even worse.
    I must say he was quite something to behold from the top of the Radcliffe Road Stand, Christ knows what it must be like watching him steam in at you, a big unit indeed.
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  3. #18
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussie
    For a man who does so much bowling per test he should bot be batting in the top 6 at all even if he is capable of it. That poblem can be erradicated if England drop the spinner pick the extra bat thus allowing him to bowl as much as he can since he is undoubtebly Englands best bowler & bat at #7. Plus in a few ODI's he can be rested.
    So reduece the problem by giving him a bigger workload - good logic there
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  4. #19
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    It'll be disappointing if he's not fit and firing come Ashes time, both from a neutral perspective and an Australian one. It'd be a shame to regain the Ashes and have to deal with 2 and half years of "if only we'd had Flintoff!".
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  5. #20
    State 12th Man Autobahn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyeddie
    Might I remind you that you need to take 20 wickets in order to win a test match?

    If England's 'Big 4' seam attack are all fit, then I might just agree with you a bit (that's because I'm being particularly charitable today).

    However, they are not, and with a seam attack that includes two out of the likes of Anderson, Plunkett, Mahmood and Lewis, there's no 'devil' in it, and precious little variation. Consequently, a spinner (and therefore 5 bowlers) is an absolute must. A few more weeks of this baking weather and I'd be advocating bringing Giles in AS WELL.
    Plus with over-rate requirements the way they are today, it's very hard too keep four pacers going the whole day.

  6. #21
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyeddie
    Might I remind you that you need to take 20 wickets in order to win a test match?

    If England's 'Big 4' seam attack are all fit, then I might just agree with you a bit (that's because I'm being particularly charitable today).
    Thats what i meant, once the Big 4 fast-bowlers are fit.

  7. #22
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178
    So reduece the problem by giving him a bigger workload - good logic there
    Clearly thats not what i meant, but you won't understand that since your comprehending skills aren't that great anyway. Flintoff's workload even if you pick the spinners (as is the case with England) or even if you drop the spinner which i am suggesting won't make a difference since he is England's best bowlers & he will have to live with it until his effectiveness decreases with age.

  8. #23
    State 12th Man Autobahn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussie
    Clearly thats not what i meant, but you won't understand that since your comprehending skills aren't that great anyway. Flintoff's workload even if you pick the spinners (as is the case with England) or even if you drop the spinner which i am suggesting won't make a difference since he is England's best bowlers & he will have to live with it until his effectiveness decreases with age.

    Yes he may be the best and one of the guys a captain would turn to for a wicket, but having no spinner in the team means he has to bowl a bigger normal workload and he suddenly can't put 100% into a short spell when the captain needs one.

  9. #24
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Autobahn
    Yes he may be the best and one of the guys a captain would turn to for a wicket, but having no spinner in the team means he has to bowl a bigger normal workload and he suddenly can't put 100% into a short spell when the captain needs one.
    can't disagree here, but the entire idea is debatable England definately would look stronger on paper without the main spinner, but the negative side to it is what you have mentioned here plus working with 4-seamers throughout a days play could cause problems with the over-rate.

    Having a spinner covers this, but the upside to that is that since England currently don't have a steady test standard keeper/batsman, the bottom half of the batitng is exposed.

  10. #25
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussie
    Clearly thats not what i meant, but you won't understand that since your comprehending skills aren't that great anyway.
    Reducing England's bowling attack from 5 to 4 will clearly put more burden on the 4 that are left...

  11. #26
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178
    Reducing England's bowling attack from 5 to 4 will clearly put more burden on the 4 that are left...
    yes, but its obvious that once fit the 4 seamers are very capable of causing most internationl batting line-ups much headaches, thus its very likely that if these guys can play together regularly they can keep restricting sides for sub 400 totals without the need for an average or a word-class spinner.

    But since these guys especially Jones & Freddie are proned to injury & knowing how the way Fletcher does things i dont expect England to go for that option.

  12. #27
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussie
    yes, but its obvious that once fit the 4 seamers are very capable of causing most internationl batting line-ups much headaches, thus its very likely that if these guys can play together regularly they can keep restricting sides for sub 400 totals without the need for an average or a word-class spinner.
    Except it isn't obvious, because they've never bowled as a foursome, one of the reasons being the workload would be too much, and also it allows a bowler to have on offday without knackering the other 3.

  13. #28
    Norwood's on Fire GIMH's Avatar
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    Yes, while the England seamers hunt as a pack, throughout the Ashes one of the main differences between Eng & Aus was that Australia's only plan of action was, when all else fails, give the ball to Warne, Vaughan seemed to produce a wicket with every bowling change, because if one bowler wasn't having the best day, another would step up.

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  14. #29
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Top_Cat's Avatar
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    Yes, while the England seamers hunt as a pack, throughout the Ashes one of the main differences between Eng & Aus was that Australia's only plan of action was, when all else fails, give the ball to Warne, Vaughan seemed to produce a wicket with every bowling change, because if one bowler wasn't having the best day, another would step up.
    Yep and just as important as knowing when to step-up is the ability to step-down if someone at the other end is bowling REALLY well. The English bowlers did that really well, seeming to understand the overall picture better than the Aussie bowlers did. The big clue was that each of the English bowlers shone at different stages during the series, I reckon; Harmi 1st Test, Jones 2nd Test, Ash 3rd Test, Hoggy 4th Test and Freddie (who was consistently good value too) in the 5th Test.

  15. #30
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat
    Yep and just as important as knowing when to step-up is the ability to step-down if someone at the other end is bowling REALLY well. The English bowlers did that really well, seeming to understand the overall picture better than the Aussie bowlers did. The big clue was that each of the English bowlers shone at different stages during the series, I reckon; Harmi 1st Test, Jones 2nd Test, Ash 3rd Test, Hoggy 4th Test and Freddie (who was consistently good value too) in the 5th Test.
    exactly thats why i feel the idea of the 4 seamers being England main attacking options once all are fit would work. But since blokes like Jones & Flintoff are injury prone it probably its safer to have the spinner to cover them.

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