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Thread: Best ever medium pacer?

  1. #16
    International Regular oz_fan's Avatar
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    I'm gonna include anyone who bowls usually in the mid 80mph or below.
    I would have as a top 5:
    1. McGrath - taken most wickets as a pace bowler in test cricket.
    2. Hadlee - superb accuracy and a wicket taker.
    3. Bedser - was a challenge for Don Bradman.
    4. Pollock- underrated. Has taken close to 400 wickets at an average close to 20. At one stage he averaged under 20.
    5. Botham/Dev - Both took a lot of wickets and could be devastating.
    Last edited by oz_fan; 27-05-2006 at 06:44 PM.

  2. #17
    C_C
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    3. Bedser - was a challenge for Don Bradman.
    While Bedser was an excellent bowler, the supposition that he posed a challenge for Bradman is not really indicative of how good (or bad) a player he was. For one, Bradman found Larwood to be quite a challenge too and Larwood isnt exactly the greatest or finest of very fast bowlers.
    Often batsmen or bowlers have a bogey guy who is quite adept despite not being an excellent or earthshattering player.
    Lara had a problem with Bichel despite Bichel not being a very good bowler himself. Tendulkar had a problem with Cronje ( who's # of dismissals of him ranks second in the list for tests!).Bowlers too, often have a bogey-man : Warne wasnt very successful against Hooper.Sometimes there is just an 'X-factor' aspect to it too.

  3. #18
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    Bedser's claims to greatness extend a fair way beyond troubling Bradman - although that's not a bad claim either - he was the backbone of Surrey through the 1950s and the Nottingham 7s were against a post-Bradman Australian team (but with Morris, Hasset, Harvey, Miller, etc still going strong).

    That said, his record outside of England is nowhere near as special as his record at home.
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  4. #19
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    Bichel's an alright bowler - he's brave and was pretty successful in some limited opportunities. His WC in 2003 was awesome. But I take your point about him not being a great bowler, yet still posing big difficulties for particular great batsmen, like Lara.


  5. #20
    International Coach social's Avatar
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    Batsmen that faced McGrath, Pollock pre-ankle injury, Aldmerman pre-shoulder injury, Hadlee etc would undoubtedly take issue with their classification as medium pacers.

    At worst, these guys were all sharp, albeit slightly below express, and much quicker than, say, Hoggard.

    For mine, medium pacers are people like Bedser, Max Walker, Fazal Mahmood, Sid Barnes. These are guys that had great control over line, length and movement out of necessity as they had no pace to fall back on.

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  8. #23
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  9. #24
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by social
    Batsmen that faced McGrath, Pollock pre-ankle injury, Aldmerman pre-shoulder injury, Hadlee etc would undoubtedly take issue with their classification as medium pacers.

    At worst, these guys were all sharp, albeit slightly below express, and much quicker than, say, Hoggard.

    For mine, medium pacers are people like Bedser, Max Walker, Fazal Mahmood, Sid Barnes. These are guys that had great control over line, length and movement out of necessity as they had no pace to fall back on.
    I'll admit i was thinking alderman after his shoulder injury, I'm too young to remember him before that. McGrath is a line-ball one in my mine, certainly since his ankle injury he might not like the tag, but medium-fast rather than fast-medium fits him better, and he's still a pretty good bowler for that. I'd agree Pollock and Hadlee would be fast-medium.

    Genuine medium pace seems to be a dying art in Test cricket these days (there's plenty in ODIs because of all-rounders... Is there still a place for medium pacers (as beautifully defined by social) who aren't in the McGrath/Bedser level of greatness at what they do? There no shortage of average fast bowlers or spinners

  10. #25
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_C
    Bradman found Larwood to be quite a challenge too and Larwood isnt exactly the greatest or finest of very fast bowlers.
    ?????????????

    We are talking about HAROLD Larwood aren't we?
    He is without a doubt one of the greatest fast bowlers ever, period.

    If you want to judge solely on average I would ask you to first comprehend the LBW rule at the time and how that blunted Larwood far more than any opponent.

    Larwood is a great and he is even more imprtant as he was the first real speed of light bowler. Apologies to Gregory, Hearne etc.
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt79
    I'll admit i was thinking alderman after his shoulder injury, I'm too young to remember him before that. McGrath is a line-ball one in my mine, certainly since his ankle injury he might not like the tag, but medium-fast rather than fast-medium fits him better, and he's still a pretty good bowler for that. I'd agree Pollock and Hadlee would be fast-medium.

    Genuine medium pace seems to be a dying art in Test cricket these days (there's plenty in ODIs because of all-rounders... Is there still a place for medium pacers (as beautifully defined by social) who aren't in the McGrath/Bedser level of greatness at what they do? There no shortage of average fast bowlers or spinners
    I'll try and answer:

    I suppose the problem is nowadays with covered pitches, you don't get the massive movement off the seam like in the pre-covering days.

  12. #27
    International Debutant a massive zebra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy

    Larwood is a great and he is even more imprtant as he was the first real speed of light bowler. Apologies to Gregory, Hearne etc.
    It is very debatable whether Larwood was any faster than Charles Kortright, Charles Harenc or Samuel Redgate.
    Last edited by a massive zebra; 28-05-2006 at 06:32 AM.

  13. #28
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by a massive zebra
    It is very debatable whether Larwood was any faster than Charles Kortright or Charles Harenc.
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  14. #29
    International Regular JBH001's Avatar
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    I gotta say - when I think of medium pacer, Mcgrath does not come to mind.
    He is more a fast-medium bowler, latterly a medium- fast bowler but not a medium pace bowler.

    Angus Fraser to my mind was a medium pacer, as well as Tom Cartwright, Mike Hendrick etc. Harking further back, Maurice Tate was a medium pacer too and Chaminda Vaas most certainly has been one over the last few years.

    Best medium pacer? It's difficult to go beyond Sydney Barnes.
    (though giving him as an answer may be cheating a little bit)

  15. #30
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