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*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

nzfan

International Vice-Captain
Have to disagree here. KW had articles about him being the next Martin Crowe around age 12/13, because he was simply different class, and like you I was entrenched in age group cricket at that point. KW would do things like score 140* out of ND 17's score of 210. I'm sorry but thats simply something Ravindra isn't doing. I'm not saying he can't, not at all. I just think theres for more nuance to the Williamson story and player. People still tend to underrate him IMO, the fact that people are now surprised he's an accomplished T20 player. This guy only thinks about batting, 24/7. I seen it up close first hand. Corey and Kane not in the same stratosphere, Corey was known for being physically developed very early, which made him play with older age groups. Kane's mental ability and maturity is what was far more advanced than his peers, along with his habits off the field. Hell I remember being a net bowler for international sides, and the Black Caps knew who Kane was at 15/16.

Style of play and competency is definitely important, but weight of runs falls in the competent category for me. Also, skills etc. are one thing, the mental application and requirement as you level up is what Kippax is getting at. I'm in KIppax's boat, I seen the Ravindra hype on here for years, but have never seen it backed up fully and truly. Also, not interested in his wickets etc. I feel as though NZ has a tendency to produce players, who if not good enough in a specialist position, work on their other "skills" and become bits and pieces players. Instead of becoming a better batsman, they become a half ass all rounder. That's why Ravindra wicket count isn't really that relevant IMO.

Now obviously, this seems like a cynical bunch of ****, (possibly is TBH LOL), but I have full hope in the kid, I just don't see any reason to downplay Kane's pedigree to try amplify your point about Ravindra. Kane was backed on potential but he also matched that with performance. ATM Ravindra looking more potential that performance.
I think the point I made was lost or probably I didn't convey well enough. I was replying to Kippax's video of Ravindra nicking and wanting him to score loads of runs at club. There is no way I'm going to compare a 18 year old with the one of the two world's best test player (I believe Kane is right up the top along with Steve Smith in longer format for me). I was also not downplaying Kane, he was good, had potential and has materialized that potential as well. All I was pointing to was all players including KW couldn't go around scoring in every game or series hence not a barometer for future. I know as many times as he scored he also failed to on many occasions even in the age group (obviously I was part of the set up as mentioned previously). That's just natural, getting out is part and parcel of the game. Ravindra is no Kane as for run scoring is concerned no doubt but skills wise he's right up there. Whether that materializes into years of performances is still to be seen. It's possible but there are a lot of dimensions to the game that dictates how he goes, mental toughness is one of them. The sport is fast changing, heck there's a T10 tournament going on so quite hard to predict future of any player IMO. I agree with you he has massive potential than performance at the moment but given NZ Cricket now has taken full control of his situation and including him with Black Caps/NZ A tours they will get the best out of him I'm hoping. For a smallish population we do really well and that I believe are the support staff that make it happen. We have an amazing knack of producing world class performers in cricket particularly in the last decade or so. There must be something we must be doing right.

I disagree on your take on his bowling. I don't believe he's bits and pieces player. I believe his bowling is as good as his batting or even better. He's been a consistent player with the ball for years. I'd rather have a player that can contribute with bat, ball and hopefully some leadership as long as they are top class than single dimension players. If a bloke can bowl 10 overs and bat in the top order I will have him in the team every time.

Ravindra has got good attention over the years and I believe there are other players probably not getting as much attention although they are equally good. Someone like Finn Allen should be in the mix, he is a bloody good batter and an outstanding fielder. Ben Sears another young lad and he'll probably be one of the quickest in the country if not the quickest. Sears hasn't achieved much in terms of performances but in a right set up and with good opportunities he can give good 10 years of cricket at the top level. We are wasting him in club cricket in Wellington, hoping he gets a good go with firebirds this year. Josh Finney the lad from Otago and Ken McClure from Canterbury are two more players that should be encouraged way more.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
From the AusDom thread for Kippax:

Queensland has had a busy pre-season with a mix of intra-squad and state squad practice matches.

With many of their regular campaigners away with Australia A, coach Seccombe has turned to the ranks of Premier Cricket and Queensland youth squads to trial a number of promising players, including Sunshine Coast opener Angus Lovell, teenage Wynnum-Manly batsman Corey Hunter, reigning Peter Burge Medallist and Sunshine Coast captain Alecz Day, Sandgate-Redcliffe quick Brad Powell and former AFL draftee Jack Clayton.

Adelaide Advertiser.

Chris Lynn back from Carrabean Party early.
 

Immenso

International Vice-Captain
New Zealand A (for T20, 50-over and first-class matches against Pakistan A): Corey Anderson, Astle, Blundell, Tom Bruce, Chapman, Ferguson, Kyle Jamieson, Scott Kuggeleijn, Patel, Glenn Phillips, Raval, Rachin Ravindra, Seifert, Blair Tickner, Logan van Beek, George Worker, Will Young, Wagner, Watling.

Ravindra cracks NZA but couldn't make the Firebirds last season.. Awesome. Good squads, Rance will get tapped in the UAE, if he's not swinging it a foot he's suspect. Yeah CDG aint a batsman, will be interesting to see how the test team lines up. Looks like they're betting on roads.
19 names in the NZA squad.

Obviously, the A tests must coincide wuith the blackcaps white ball stuff. Therefore Wagner, Raval, Watling are in the A squad - using it as warm-up games for the test series.

I'd say Tickner, Chapman, and maybe Worker will be there just for the NZA whiteball stuff.

My attempt at picking an 11 for the A Tests. Based on a 2 spinners, 2 seamers balance:

1. Ravindra / Worker
2. Raval
3. Young
4. Bruce
5. Phillips / Seifert
6. Anderson
7. Watling / Blundell
8. Astle
9. Patel
10. Kyle Jamieson / Kuggeleijn / van Beek
11. Wagner / Ferguson

I think Ravindra will be given games, and he will open based on the balance of the squad.
Wagner and Watling will probably just play a single game.
 

nzfan

International Vice-Captain
twitter.PNG

Is that Rachin Ravindra? What's he doing at the Black Caps camp? Only one from the A in the Black Caps camp for UAE? Saw this on the Black Caps twitter feed.
 

nzfan

International Vice-Captain
New Zealand A will face Pakistan A in three T20 matches which will be played on October 12, 15 and 17 at the ICC Academy.

Three 50-over matches between both teams will be played on October 21, 24 and 26 at the Nursery Oval, Abu Dhabi, whereas two four-day matches will be played from October 30 and November 6 respectively.

The Black Caps’ tour of UAE will begin with the ODI series where the three matches will be played on October 31, November 2 and 4.

The T20I series will be played between November 7 – 11, whereas the five-day format will begin from November 16.

While the NZ As will engage in two 4 day matches between 30th Oct and 10th Nov Black Caps will be engaged in one day and twenty20s.
 

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
Good to see Raval playing some county stuff for Yorkshire (replacing Williamson). Obviously it will be vastly different in the UAE but time in the middle helps. Also good to see so many players playing 1st class or T20 overseas (10fer for the other Jeets)
 

Howsie

International Captain
Test: Kane Williamson (captain), Jeet Raval, Tom Latham, Ross Taylor, Henry Nicholls, BJ Watling, Tom Blundell, Colin de Grandhomme, Todd Astle, Ish Sodhi, Ajaz Patel, Tim Southee, Neil Wagner, Matt Henry, Trent Boult.

ODI: Williamson (c), Martin Guptill, Watling, Colin Munro, Taylor, Nicholls, Latham, de Grandhomme, Astle, Sodhi, Southee, Henry, Boult, two to be added from NZA/NZ T20 squad.

Twenty20: Williamson (c), Guptill, Munro, Taylor, Mark Chapman, Tim Seifert, de Grandhomme, Adam Milne, Southee, Sodhi, Lockie Ferguson, Seth Rance, two to be added from NZA.

New Zealand A (for T20, 50-over and first-class matches against Pakistan A): Corey Anderson, Astle, Blundell, Tom Bruce, Chapman, Ferguson, Kyle Jamieson, Scott Kuggeleijn, Patel, Glenn Phillips, Raval, Rachin Ravindra, Seifert, Blair Tickner, Logan van Beek, George Worker, Will Young, Wagner, Watling.

Ravindra cracks NZA but couldn't make the Firebirds last season.. Awesome. Good squads, Rance will get tapped in the UAE, if he's not swinging it a foot he's suspect. Yeah CDG aint a batsman, will be interesting to see how the test team lines up. Looks like they're betting on roads.
Watching highlights of the 2015 ODI series against England I noticed Ben Wheeler isn’t on this tour. Is he injured again, odd if he’s just missed the squad
 

SeamUp

International Coach
19 names in the NZA squad.

Obviously, the A tests must coincide wuith the blackcaps white ball stuff. Therefore Wagner, Raval, Watling are in the A squad - using it as warm-up games for the test series.

I'd say Tickner, Chapman, and maybe Worker will be there just for the NZA whiteball stuff.

My attempt at picking an 11 for the A Tests. Based on a 2 spinners, 2 seamers balance:

1. Ravindra / Worker
2. Raval
3. Young
4. Bruce
5. Phillips / Seifert
6. Anderson
7. Watling / Blundell
8. Astle
9. Patel
10. Kyle Jamieson / Kuggeleijn / van Beek
11. Wagner / Ferguson

I think Ravindra will be given games, and he will open based on the balance of the squad.
Wagner and Watling will probably just play a single game.
Not sure on some of these selections like Bruce in FC squad but no Ferguson & Phillips. Some other debatable choices.

NZ A Squad
Corey Anderson
Todd Astle (T20s, One-Day, and first FC match)
Tom Blundell
Tom Bruce
Mark Chapman (T20 only)
Lockie Ferguson (T20 only)
Kyle Jamieson
Scott Kuggeleijn
Ajaz Patel
Glenn Phillips (T20 and One-Day)
Jeet Raval (FC matches)
Rachin Ravindra
Tim Seifert (T20 and second FC match)
Blair Tickner
Logan van Beek (One-Day and FC matches)
George Worker
Will Young
Neil Wagner (Second FC match)
BJ Watling (One-Day and first FC match)
 

Flem274*

123/5
FC is probably Bruce's best format. Very much a zone hitter which works domestically but has been exposed in ODIs. If he's to make himself any sort of international career it'll be in red ball cricket like CdG has.
 

Flem274*

123/5
It's great that I want to see almost everyone in the A squad get plenty of game time. Usually there's at least half I'm ho hum about.

I want to see Rachin open in both games and Seifert at #4. The UAE will also be a great test of Jamieson and Tickner's adaptability since Jamieson is a ridic tall swing bowler who isn't very fast yet and Tickner is a tall hit the deck fast bowler who is extremely rocks and diamonds atm.

Ferguson being t20 only is sad. He's a genuine long format option imo
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
I Ferguson being t20 only is sad. He's a genuine long format option imo
Are the FC games on this tour first? He might just be unavailable for them because of his county deal (he's extended it to finish the FC season, after initially only signing there as a T20 player).
 

Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year
No, the formats progress from shortest to longest on it.

The ICC Academy is where they've shipped in pitch clays from all over the world btw. "He did well on the NZA tour to the UAE" won't necessarily connote the style of cricket we think it does, when we're discussing future selections. Lockie might've enjoyed one or two of the games coming up.



12 OCT
Pakistan A v New Zealand A
New Zealand A tour of UAE 2018/19 – Men's Twenty-20 Match – First Twenty20 Match
ICC Academy, Dubai –Friday, 12 October 2018, TBC
15 OCT
Pakistan A v New Zealand A
New Zealand A tour of UAE 2018/19 – Men's Twenty-20 Match – Second Twenty20 Match
ICC Academy, Dubai –Monday, 15 October 2018, TBC
17 OCT
Pakistan A v New Zealand A
New Zealand A tour of UAE 2018/19 – Men's Twenty-20 Match – Third Twenty20 Match
ICC Academy, Dubai –Wednesday, 17 October 2018, TBC
21 OCT
Pakistan A v New Zealand A
New Zealand A tour of UAE 2018/19 – Men's One-Day Match – First One-Day Match
Nursery Oval, Abu Dhabi –Sunday, 21 October 2018, TBC
24 OCT
Pakistan A v New Zealand A
New Zealand A tour of UAE 2018/19 – Men's One-Day Match – Second One-Day Match
Nursery Oval, Abu Dhabi –Wednesday, 24 October 2018, TBC
26 OCT
Pakistan A v New Zealand A
New Zealand A tour of UAE 2018/19 – Men's One-Day Match – Third One-Day Match
Nursery Oval, Abu Dhabi –Friday, 26 October 2018, TBC
30 OCT
Pakistan A v New Zealand A
New Zealand A tour of UAE 2018/19 – First Class Match – First Four-Day Match
ICC Academy, Dubai –Tuesday, 30 October 2018, TBC
06 NOV
Pakistan A v New Zealand A
New Zealand A tour of UAE 2018/19 – First Class Match – Second Four-Day Match
Nursery Oval, Abu Dhabi –Tuesday, 6 November 2018, TBC
 

Immenso

International Vice-Captain
I don't really see the point of including T20s in an A tour. The top 20ish NZ T20 players play all over the world in the pro leagues against top quality opposition for that format. I assume the same for the Pakistanis. I don't see what the format adds to an A tour. We have plenty of 20 depth and experience.

Better off using that week to make it a 3 List A, 3 FC tour.
 

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Matt Henry returns to County Cricket and immediately helps himself to a lazy 11 wicket haul for Kent. I really don't know what to think, I mean this is the league where Jesse Ryder picked up piles of wickets - but at the same time 60-odd wickets at about 14 apiece is pretty special. Will be interesting to see how he goes once the Plunket Shield resumes.
 

Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year
Yeah was there anything unusually good with the white Kookaburra by Henry for Kent? Otherwise, there were sort of hints of him being well and truly buffed by the fact he's got a red Duke in his hand, back in 2014 -
Tour Match, New Zealand A tour of England and Scotland at London, Aug 31 - Sep 2 2014 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo

Yeah I'm putting both him and Ben Wheeler down as two guys whose minor imperfection in seam release elevates them into really lethal, move-it-both-ways destroyers of FC batsmen with the Duke. I wouldn't think Wheeler's collected enough international caps to slip through the British Home Office's crackdown and get himself a good long county gig next season though, if any savvy county recruitment types are reading this.
 

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Yeah was there anything unusually good with the white Kookaburra by Henry for Kent?
Yeah, not really: 16 wickets at 34, with a couple of good hauls, and a couple of occasions where he got absolutely pasted - so pretty typical Henry really.
 

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