*** un-Official - New Zealand Black Caps Thread *** - Page 3

Ming · 19-05-2006, 04:23 AM

I think Franklin will be a fixture in the starting XI come World Cup time, his allround talents are almost too hard to ignore. I just hope he doesn't open the bowling in ODIs, because like the others have said, he seems to bowl better when the ball starts reversing. I also liked the look of him bowling around the wicket to right-handers and swinging the ball away from them nicely with the old ball. His batting will only improve, and he takes time to set himself in. Wouldn't surprise me if they batted Franklin ahead of McCullum and Vettori in Tests soon, not because he's a better player, but he's a good option to have at 7 to stabilise the 'attacking' middle order.

Kippax · 19-05-2006, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Right arm fast

sherlock wasn't actually clocked at 150 dayle hadlee just predicted it

Wonder who Hadlee was relying on for that estimate then. He wasn't actually in SA to make his own.

Remembering back, I think I put two and two together after seeing TV umpires listed on the scorecards, and that you can probably trust a Hadlee to be quoting something relatively precise. Not that it really matters now I suppose.

Quote:

Copyright Independent Newspapers, Ltd. Nov 5, 2004

"Sherlock reportedly hit speeds of 150kmh in South Africa (on last month's New Zealand A tour), that's got to be the quickest since Shane Bond and before that Gary Bartlett," Hadlee, a former New Zealand fast-medium bowler said.

Perm · 06-10-2006, 10:09 PM

Stephen Fleming (captain)
Nathan Astle
Shane Bond
James Franklin
Peter Fulton
Mark Gillespie
Brendon McCullum
Hamish Marshall
Kyle Mills
Jacob Oram
Jeetan Patel
Scott Styris
Daniel Vettori
Lou Vincent

I know it's been around for a while but I thought if it was reposted in CC we could get a bit more of discussion going on about the possible 11 they will use for the first game against South Africa. Personally I think the team will be fairly predictable with Fleming and Vincent opening, Astle coming in at 3 and Fulton, Marshall and Styris rounding out the top 6. McCullum at 7, Vettori at 8, Franklin at 9, Mills at 10 and Bond at 11. Interested to hear other people's thoughts, not only on the CT but on the Black Caps in general.

shortpitched713 · 07-10-2006, 12:38 AM

1. Brendon McCullum+
2. Stephen Fleming*
3. Nathan Astle
4. Hamish Marshall
5. Scott Styris
6. Peter Fulton
7. Jacob Oram
8. Shane Bond
9. Daniel Vettori
10. Kyle Mills
11. James Franklin

Basically the same team that you have Perm, but with Oram in for Vincent and McCullum opening. Might as well try opening with McCullum, seeing as the Black Caps have tried everything else. Oram's bowling should be useful, and I suppose hes a handy bat too. To be honest though, this side really doesn't look to have the fire power to win the CT or even cause some of the top contenders (Australia, SA, Pakistan) much trouble. A lot will depend on whether Shane Bond is firing, IMO.

Natman20 · 07-10-2006, 12:42 AM

Bond before Vettori in the batting line-up?

shortpitched713 · 07-10-2006, 12:55 AM

Just sort of threw the tailenders in there in no particular order. Bond is better that Mills and Franklin in my opinion so that would be the only switch. Thing that lineup looks pretty good though. It has 6 bowlers without really sacrificing too much batting.

Perm · 07-10-2006, 01:30 AM

In my opinion Oram has not really shown if he is good enough as an ODI player, sure he can clobber boundaries at will and his bowling comes in handy but he only averages 18 with the bat and has the tendency to leak runs in the middle overs when he is bowling. Bond, Franklin, Mills and Vettori will make up most of the overs with Astle and Styris sharing the other 10. The selectors will probably bring in Oram for one of the excess batsman (should be Marshall) though.

Bond is a bit of a biffer at the bottom of the order and has hit a fair few sixes in his time but I doubt they'll promote him over Vettori or Franklin.

NZTailender · 07-10-2006, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shortpitched713

1. Brendon McCullum+
2. Stephen Fleming*
3. Nathan Astle
4. Hamish Marshall
5. Scott Styris
6. Peter Fulton
7. Jacob Oram
8. Shane Bond
9. Daniel Vettori
10. Kyle Mills
11. James Franklin

Basically the same team that you have Perm, but with Oram in for Vincent and McCullum opening. Might as well try opening with McCullum, seeing as the Black Caps have tried everything else. Oram's bowling should be useful, and I suppose hes a handy bat too. To be honest though, this side really doesn't look to have the fire power to win the CT or even cause some of the top contenders (Australia, SA, Pakistan) much trouble. A lot will depend on whether Shane Bond is firing, IMO.

Good work on ignoring NZ's best ODI opening batsmen for a year or so.

Still not convinced about Franklin in ODI's. My team:

1. L Vincent
2. N Astle
3. S Fleming
4. P Fulton
5. H Marshall
6. S Styris
7. J Oram
8. B McCullum (wk)
9. D Vettori
10. K Mills
11. S Bond

Sir Redman · 07-10-2006, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NZTailender

Good work on ignoring NZ's best ODI opening batsmen for a year or so.

Still not convinced about Franklin in ODI's. My team:

1. L Vincent
2. N Astle
3. S Fleming
4. P Fulton
5. H Marshall
6. S Styris
7. J Oram
8. B McCullum (wk)
9. D Vettori
10. K Mills
11. S Bond

Me neither. And not convinced about Oram either - hopeless batting record in ODIs and his bowling has been poo since he started having trouble with his back. We might as well give Gillespie a go, it's only the Champions Trophy and if he's going to be in our World Cup squad then he needs to get as much experience as possible before then. I'd go with:

1. L Vincent
2. N Astle
3. S Fleming
4. P Fulton
5. H Marshall
6. S Styris
7. B McCullum (wk)
8. D Vettori
9. K Mills
10. S Bond
11. M Gillespie

NZTailender · 07-10-2006, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Redman

Me neither. And not convinced about Oram either - hopeless batting record in ODIs and his bowling has been poo since he started having trouble with his back. We might as well give Gillespie a go, it's only the Champions Trophy and if he's going to be in our World Cup squad then he needs to get as much experience as possible before then. I'd go with:

1. L Vincent
2. N Astle
3. S Fleming
4. P Fulton
5. H Marshall
6. S Styris
7. B McCullum (wk)
8. D Vettori
9. K Mills
10. S Bond
11. M Gillespie

I was going to post that side, then decided against it and included Oram...

Salamuddin · 07-10-2006, 04:06 AM

Kiwis have a good ODI team - will be tough to beat in the WC 2007.

Will be competitive in tests on their greentops at home but will be struggle to win away from home....simply because all their bowlers are mediocre with the exception of Bond.

shortpitched713 · 07-10-2006, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NZTailender

Good work on ignoring NZ's best ODI opening batsmen for a year or so.

I'm not going to pretend that I am the be all end all when it comes to New Zealand cricket. Still, I haven't been too impressed with Vincent as a one day opener, looks more comfortable in the middle order, but I wouldn't take out any of those batsmen for him with the possible exception of Marshall.

Still, I can't help but feel that theres somthing fundamentally wrong with a team that has Kyle Mills as an automatic selection.

Natman20 · 07-10-2006, 12:32 PM

I think a lot of people under-estimate Kyle Mills. He has improved over the last couple of years and is looking to be a consistent ODI option. Be interesting to see if Tuffey could force his way back into the frame next year. Our New Zealand attack I agree doesn't look that threatening without Bond but we have still managed to win at a consistent level without him. I think our batting depth is finally becoming all-right but i'm not to sure if our bowling depth is very good at all and if a couple of our pace-men got injured I would be worried.

shortpitched713 · 07-10-2006, 01:57 PM

While I do agree that New Zealand's batting depth has improved, their batting is lacking in that they don't have a single batsmen that I would call extremely good. Fleming and Astle come close, but they aren't good enough. They don't really have batsmen that could demolish an attack, besides Astle and hes too inconsistent. Hopefully, some of the young batsmen can step up to fill the void.

Retox · 07-10-2006, 04:48 PM

Mills has been bowling well over the last year, I can't wait to see what he and bond can do together.

19-05-2006, 04:23 AM	#31 (permalink)
Ming State 12th Man Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Hong Kong - Asia's World City Posts: 723	I think Franklin will be a fixture in the starting XI come World Cup time, his allround talents are almost too hard to ignore. I just hope he doesn't open the bowling in ODIs, because like the others have said, he seems to bowl better when the ball starts reversing. I also liked the look of him bowling around the wicket to right-handers and swinging the ball away from them nicely with the old ball. His batting will only improve, and he takes time to set himself in. Wouldn't surprise me if they batted Franklin ahead of McCullum and Vettori in Tests soon, not because he's a better player, but he's a good option to have at 7 to stabilise the 'attacking' middle order. __________________ GO THE BLACK CAPS!!!

07-10-2006, 04:48 PM	#45 (permalink)
Retox State Vice-Captain Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: New Zealand Posts: 1,317	Mills has been bowling well over the last year, I can't wait to see what he and bond can do together. __________________ No'ones gonna take me alive The time has come to make things right You and I must fight for our rights You and I must fight to survive New Zealand Cricket Supporter

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07-10-2006, 12:38 AM	#34 (permalink)
shortpitched713 International Regular Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: USA Posts: 3,219	1. Brendon McCullum+ 2. Stephen Fleming* 3. Nathan Astle 4. Hamish Marshall 5. Scott Styris 6. Peter Fulton 7. Jacob Oram 8. Shane Bond 9. Daniel Vettori 10. Kyle Mills 11. James Franklin Basically the same team that you have Perm, but with Oram in for Vincent and McCullum opening. Might as well try opening with McCullum, seeing as the Black Caps have tried everything else. Oram's bowling should be useful, and I suppose hes a handy bat too. To be honest though, this side really doesn't look to have the fire power to win the CT or even cause some of the top contenders (Australia, SA, Pakistan) much trouble. A lot will depend on whether Shane Bond is firing, IMO.

07-10-2006, 12:42 AM	#35 (permalink)
Natman20 International Debutant Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Auckland, NZ Posts: 2,710	Bond before Vettori in the batting line-up?

07-10-2006, 12:55 AM	#36 (permalink)
shortpitched713 International Regular Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: USA Posts: 3,219	Just sort of threw the tailenders in there in no particular order. Bond is better that Mills and Franklin in my opinion so that would be the only switch. Thing that lineup looks pretty good though. It has 6 bowlers without really sacrificing too much batting.

07-10-2006, 01:30 AM	#37 (permalink)
Perm Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Clutha Valley, New Zealand Posts: 21,817	In my opinion Oram has not really shown if he is good enough as an ODI player, sure he can clobber boundaries at will and his bowling comes in handy but he only averages 18 with the bat and has the tendency to leak runs in the middle overs when he is bowling. Bond, Franklin, Mills and Vettori will make up most of the overs with Astle and Styris sharing the other 10. The selectors will probably bring in Oram for one of the excess batsman (should be Marshall) though. Bond is a bit of a biffer at the bottom of the order and has hit a fair few sixes in his time but I doubt they'll promote him over Vettori or Franklin.

07-10-2006, 04:06 AM	#41 (permalink)
Salamuddin International Debutant Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Lakemba, Sydney Posts: 2,074	Kiwis have a good ODI team - will be tough to beat in the WC 2007. Will be competitive in tests on their greentops at home but will be struggle to win away from home....simply because all their bowlers are mediocre with the exception of Bond.

07-10-2006, 12:32 PM	#43 (permalink)
Natman20 International Debutant Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Auckland, NZ Posts: 2,710	I think a lot of people under-estimate Kyle Mills. He has improved over the last couple of years and is looking to be a consistent ODI option. Be interesting to see if Tuffey could force his way back into the frame next year. Our New Zealand attack I agree doesn't look that threatening without Bond but we have still managed to win at a consistent level without him. I think our batting depth is finally becoming all-right but i'm not to sure if our bowling depth is very good at all and if a couple of our pace-men got injured I would be worried.

07-10-2006, 01:57 PM	#44 (permalink)
shortpitched713 International Regular Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: USA Posts: 3,219	While I do agree that New Zealand's batting depth has improved, their batting is lacking in that they don't have a single batsmen that I would call extremely good. Fleming and Astle come close, but they aren't good enough. They don't really have batsmen that could demolish an attack, besides Astle and hes too inconsistent. Hopefully, some of the young batsmen can step up to fill the void.

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