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Thread: *** un-Official - New Zealand Black Caps Thread ***

  1. #16
    Banned Blaze's Avatar
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    John Bracewell is the type of guy who will defend on Sunday what he did on Friday despite what happened on Saturday...

  2. #17
    Hall of Fame Member NZTailender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natman20
    Well we arn't playing any games until september so he needs practise and for the millionth time Lou Vincent would have been selected if it was not for the birth of his child as would have Sinclair if it wasn't for his wedding IMO. This should be a good show at how well these players can match up against other countries a teams. Does anyone have the schedule I can't find it anywhere and I don't have any idea of when that series is

    Fair enough - but no Kyle Mills? I don't think he's playing in England, is he?
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  3. #18
    State Vice-Captain Sir Redman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natman20
    Franklins statistics are useless to me. I think hes crud and is lucky to take most of his wickets. His only good period of bowling is when he first starts his spell and the ball is swinging. If the ball wasn't swinging he'd be practically a bit like Martin. I still like the look of Kyle Mills. I wouldn't have rated Mills a couple years ago but I think he has really improved and has a role to play in the ODIs and I think he could become more effective in Tests.
    .
    Hmmm. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

    Franklin, IMO, is quite clearly our second-best pace bowler behind Bond. Martin needs a squillion different variables to be in his favour to be effective (i.e. pitch conditions, overhead conditions, good rhythm etc); Oram's only a stock bowler who will never take many wickets and Mills a) hasn't played enough tests for us to rate him and b) doesn't have the ability to bowl wicket taking balls like Franklin does. Mills has turned into a useful ODI bowler, but he's never going to run through a team like Bond or even Franklin and Martin can. He doesn't swing it as much and is a bit slower than the other two which reduces his chances of taking wickets.

    Also, Franklin most certainly does not take his wickets through luck. If you look at the way he gets batsmen out, most of them come from good-length outswingers/inswingers that get the batsman caught behind/lbw. He genuinely gets batsman out through good bowling rather than waiting for a mistake.

    Finally, I disagree that his bowling is only good when the ball is new. Many of Franklin's best spells in recent times have come when he's been pasted in his opening spell and then come back when the ball is a bit older. Look at some of the most recent tests versus Australia and also South Africa and you'd see that this was often the case.
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  4. #19
    International Regular 16 tins of Spam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Redman
    Hmmm. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

    Franklin, IMO, is quite clearly our second-best pace bowler behind Bond. Martin needs a squillion different variables to be in his favour to be effective (i.e. pitch conditions, overhead conditions, good rhythm etc); Oram's only a stock bowler who will never take many wickets and Mills a) hasn't played enough tests for us to rate him and b) doesn't have the ability to bowl wicket taking balls like Franklin does. Mills has turned into a useful ODI bowler, but he's never going to run through a team like Bond or even Franklin and Martin can. He doesn't swing it as much and is a bit slower than the other two which reduces his chances of taking wickets.

    Also, Franklin most certainly does not take his wickets through luck. If you look at the way he gets batsmen out, most of them come from good-length outswingers/inswingers that get the batsman caught behind/lbw. He genuinely gets batsman out through good bowling rather than waiting for a mistake.

    Finally, I disagree that his bowling is only good when the ball is new. Many of Franklin's best spells in recent times have come when he's been pasted in his opening spell and then come back when the ball is a bit older. Look at some of the most recent tests versus Australia and also South Africa and you'd see that this was often the case.
    Seconded. Natman's comments sound like irrational bias and shouldn't really be taken seriously.
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  5. #20
    International Debutant Natman20's Avatar
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    I just don't like James Franklin! I havn't seen any of the games he played in South Africa and heard he bowled a few good deliveries to get wickets and maybe he could develop into a good bowler but only tests. Please don't have him back in the ODI team he just gets hit for four so often with about 1 off delivery in every over from what i've seen. If Daryl Tuffey was fit I would play him instead. My comments about Mills were probably a bit dumb but hes a good ODI bowler I think and hasn't really been given much opportunity in tests. -- Nobody listen to me i'm irrational --

  6. #21
    Hall of Fame Member NZTailender's Avatar
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    I think we are all agreed that Franklin should only play tests, but he's a much better bowler than you think

    I wouldn't have Tuffey in the side ahead of him, but I'd have Tuffey bowl with the new ball and Franklin first change. Bond, Tuffey, Franklin is better than Bond, Franklin, Martin...

  7. #22
    International Regular shaka's Avatar
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    Tuffey is a better ODI bowler than Franklin.
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  8. #23
    International Debutant Natman20's Avatar
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    While we are talking about Franklin I heard on the radio just before that he is going to play for Glamorgan no surgery required. Maybe this will make him a better player.
    Last edited by Natman20; 17-05-2006 at 03:40 AM.

  9. #24
    Hall of Fame Member Smudge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natman20
    I just don't like James Franklin! I havn't seen any of the games he played in South Africa and heard he bowled a few good deliveries to get wickets and maybe he could develop into a good bowler but only tests. Please don't have him back in the ODI team he just gets hit for four so often with about 1 off delivery in every over from what i've seen. If Daryl Tuffey was fit I would play him instead. My comments about Mills were probably a bit dumb but hes a good ODI bowler I think and hasn't really been given much opportunity in tests. -- Nobody listen to me i'm irrational --
    But Franklin's a great test bowler. I mean, he's got a test hat trick for crying out loud!! Look what happened to our other test hat trick taker, Peter Petherick - he went on to have a great career...







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  10. #25
    Hall of Fame Member NZTailender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natman20
    While we are talking about Franklin I heard on the radio just before that he is going to play for Glamorgan no surgery required. Maybe this will make him a better player.

    Well, I hope all our players in England this year will improve. I think we have the most over this year than any other? I may be mistaken though.

  11. #26
    International Regular Kippax's Avatar
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    A recent interview with Richard Sherlock and a few other players heading to Aus next month has been posted elsewhere on the web I see (any direct link will automatically be starred out according to the preview of my post - type "cricket" and "Richie Sherlock" (as in Richie McCaw) into google if you're interested). I only found the site it's on through half-jokingly adding Sherlock to my google alerts over the summer to keep track of all his injuries.

    In the interview he's described how he's dealing with the constant setbacks and how he developed the sidekick relationship he enjoys with Bond. There's definitely a similar theme of unbreakable optimism that you associate with Bond's own interviews, which is a nice sign.
    Last edited by Kippax; 17-05-2006 at 08:25 PM.

  12. #27
    Cricketer Of The Year Arjun's Avatar
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    Bond and Sherlock in tandem would be good for the team, but I must ask, with all these fast bowlers getting injured, do the people in charge in New Zealand really taking care of their faster bowlers? I guess not, given how quickly Geoff Allot and Shayne O'Connor faded away, and how often Dion Nash was out of action, and now Shane Bond.
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  13. #28
    International Debutant Natman20's Avatar
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    I think Bonds focus should be the World Cup so I would only play him in 2 or 3 ODIs before the tournament so he doesn't get injured. How fast does Sherlock bowl?

  14. #29
    International Regular Kippax's Avatar
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    Sherlock was clocked at 150kph on his tour of SA in 2004 (the NZ A v SA A one-dayers were televised apparently). From posts on CW by those who'd had a bit to do with him though, 150 seemed a little high for what they'd estimated he was. Two years on and several injuries later, it's really anyone's guess what his top speed would be now.

    More than just good pace, one of the things I've liked about Sherlock as a prospect was him reportedly being capable of getting some nice outswing going as well, similar to perhaps a Lee, Steyn or Simon Jones.

  15. #30
    State Vice-Captain Right arm fast's Avatar
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    sherlock wasn't actually clocked at 150 dayle hadlee just predicted it even so hed still be prett quick. when i went to an otago canty game sherlock and bond where bowling in tandem but sherlock didn't look as quick as bond. mccullum was standing between where he stood for bond and cairns when sherlock was bowling
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