*** un-Official - New Zealand Black Caps Thread ***

[Pup Clarke]

Surely there's gotta be better seamers in NZ then Mark Gillespie.... What about the likes of Iain O'Brien, Tama Canning, Graeme Aldridge... or Daryll Tuffey.

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Originally Posted by Pup Clarke

Surely there's gotta be better seamers in NZ then Mark Gillespie.... What about the likes of Iain O'Brien, Tama Canning, Graeme Aldridge... or Daryll Tuffey.

Tama Canning went back to Western Australia in a huff after being hauled over the coals for a disciplinary reason in November 2006. No chance of him ever playing again.

Daryl Tuffey is just plain crap. I want to find the selector who chose him for the World Cup and throw dog faeces at their house.

Iain O'Brien had a great season, but along with Aldridge - probably one of the most consistant first class performers in recent years - is getting on a bit and isn't seen to have as much ability to take international wickets - neither has the pace of Gillespie. O'Brien and Aldridge are much more consistant, and get a decent amount of movement, but don't really seem to be in contention at the moment.

[Pup Clarke]

Originally Posted by HeathDavisSpeed

Daryl Tuffey is just plain crap.

. Heath you really can't talk...

[Natman20]

Originally Posted by HeathDavisSpeed

Daryl Tuffey is just plain crap. I want to find the selector who chose him for the World Cup and throw dog faeces at their house.

I disagree. He was once one of the most reliable NZ bowlers and after his injury he only managed to play pretty much part of the domestic season. He was not in a position to go to the world cup because of a lack of fitness. If he can just raise his pace to what it was, he could be in the team once again. Of course accuracy is first and foremost most important. So my perspective is, he doesn't get "crap" after an injury he was quite decent and I enjoyed his bowling. Unless he had to dramatically change his action I would think that being in black again next year could in fact be a possibility

Some of his bowling wan't looking all that bad when playing before the world cup but he couldn't keep it accurate enough or have enough pace to trouble them.

[Natman20]

Originally Posted by Pup Clarke

Surely there's gotta be better seamers in NZ then Mark Gillespie.... What about the likes of Iain O'Brien, Tama Canning, Graeme Aldridge... or Daryll Tuffey.

Aldridge should have made it before Gillespie. Gillespie just shows more pace than our general seemers which had people excited about him but really his in-accuracy and expense is probably more thwarting to our team than someone like Martin who could probably be a bit more consistent. Aldridge provides consistency generally and consistantly takes a lot of wickets every domestic season.

O'Brien has been playing very well lately. I could imagine seeing him again in the Test team. Canning is out of the picture completely. There is a little bit of depth but i'd say there is more depth in our batting rather than our bowling at the present moment. We'll just have to wait and see how the younger J McMillans etc. turn out.

[Natman20]

It is good that everyone has placed Fleming in their squads they decided. It's good that people still have some confidence in his ability. He has had a lot of criticism as of late but IMO he hasn't really been that bad. He just has his patches of good and bad. Your squads looked pretty good and similar. I would put Papps as a back-up to Fleming and Martin as a back-up to Patel.

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Originally Posted by Natman20

Of course accuracy is first and foremost most important. So my perspective is, he doesn't get "crap" after an injury he was quite decent and I enjoyed his bowling. Unless he had to dramatically change his action I would think that being in black again next year could in fact be a possibility

Some of his bowling wan't looking all that bad when playing before the world cup but he couldn't keep it accurate enough or have enough pace to trouble them.

Okay. I'll clarify my position rather than hanging on my previous sweeping statement. Tuffey had been out and had not been at anywhere near his best since the injury he sustained on the last tour of England. He had been in poor form (certainly not form deserving of an international call-up) for his state all season and his callup came out of the blue ahead of more deserving, in form players. He then proceeded to show a lack of pace, a lack of energy, a lack of aggression and poor accuracy in the ODIs he did play. For him then to get a call up to the World Cup when he was clearly short of match fitness was a real slap in the face for those domestic workhorses whose fitness was never in doubt and who were clearly in better form. This does not preclude Tuffey from reaching international match fitness, but clearly it is difficult to reach previous peaks (especially in terms of pace) when you have been out for so long with a string of injuries. Ask Ian Butler, Shayne O'Connor and one HT Davis as they've all been there and suffered from the same underlying problem. The only person who seems capable of getting back to the previous heights is Shane Bond... And how he does it, god only knows.

Originally Posted by Pup Clarke

. Heath you really can't talk...

Harsh. Heath is not in contention and is feeling a little old for a comeback anyway

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Originally Posted by Natman20

Aldridge provides consistency generally and consistantly takes a lot of wickets every domestic season.

Aldridge didn't do himself any favours with *that* last over against Auckland in the 20:20 this year. That showed a real problem with coping under pressure.

(for those who didn't see it, Auckland needed 11 runs from 1 ball - Aldridge bowled a no-ball which Andre Adams hit for four and then his second attempt at a last ball got belted out of the park for six)

Regardless of whether making an assessment of a player based on a couple of balls of one match is right or not, that performance certainly would not have escaped the notice of the selection team. Hopefully, he can put a good, solid performance in on this year's A Tour and get himself in contention. He'd be a decent number 9/10 I reckon. Possibly test rather than ODIs as well.

[Flem274*]

With regards to bowlers I am of the strong belief that Martin and Mason should not be ahead of guys like O'Brien, McMillan, Gillespie, Aldridge etc. In fact I'd love to see O'Brien especially get a call up this year.

[KiWiNiNjA]

I'd rather see Patel and Vettori in the side all the time.

Bond, Mills, Oram, Vettori, Patel, Styris

And about McCullum opening, he is much better down the order!

[Days of Grace]

Did anyone notice one NJ Astle on the scorecard of the West Indies recent 20/20 tour match against a PM's XI??

He scored 18 and hit a six. So, maybe he wants to play a bit of FC cricket over in England?

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Don't think so Days of Grace.

In the same game, such players as Chris Lewis and Dean Headley also played. I think it was supposed to be a 'past masters XI'

In fact, Robin Smith also played... I think he'd even retired playing when I was over in the UK.

[Days of Grace]

Still, Astle must have other business in England, I doubt he'd come over for one 20/20 match.

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Probably playing grade cricket. Loads of Kiwis based in the Lancashire leagues at the moment

[Days of Grace]

Who was the last over 35 year-old to represent NZ in test cricket? John Wright in 1993?

Do you see this as a problem for NZ cricket that no-one is looking to extend their careers, and thus offer a heap of experience for the young players?