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Thread: Who is the latest addition to your All-Time XI

  1. #31
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    As per considering Pollock ahead of Sobers in the 60s- cant say i am surprised, given the racist climate in the white world around that time.
    That's a horrible thing to say. Worse it's judgmental. Yes I know racism were horrid at the time, but it was also a time when a great number of Englishmen and women, lead by Peter Hain, refused to let England play South Africa under their racist selections.

    So keep that in mind that many of the English were fighting racism and still considered Pollock greater.

    Did Sobers play that many more games that Pollock in the 60s? Nope, he played a few more. Were Pollock's figures as good as Sobers? Yep and you can even say maybe better.

  2. #32
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    Pollock was scanned and probed but remained awesome.
    For an extremely short period of time. 15 odd tests doesnt qualify as being thoroughly interrogated in top level cricket.

    Cricket was played on a domestic level more than you know. Bradman himself got himself a job from a business man who wanted Bradman to put on cricket exhibitions for his own profit. If you look at many of the greats from back then, the amount of domestic games they played in their life is astounding. Bradman's weren't even recognised as domestic games, yet his competition wasn't too bad.
    Its not a question of what Bradman did or Hobbs did. Its a question of what your average player did. The average FC player today is lightyears ahead of the average FC players 80 years ago in terms of skill -primarily because they are professionals while the average FC player got to play on weekends. And as such, there is a huge difference facing 2 excellent and 2 decent bowlers opposed to 1 excellnt bowler, 1 decent bowler, 1 highschool level bowler and 1 'cousin sis bowing at double bounce' level of bowler.
    None of those players faced sustained quality - they always had one or two guys to pick on who were absolutely hopeless and wouldnt go past club cricket today. And thats what makes the biggest difference.
    Which is why, i dont rate people from an amatuer era ( in any sport) highly.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Francis
    That's a horrible thing to say. Worse it's judgmental. Yes I know racism were horrid at the time, but it was also a time when a great number of Englishmen and women, lead by Peter Hain, refused to let England play South Africa under their racist selections.

    So keep that in mind that many of the English were fighting racism and still considered Pollock greater.

    Did Sobers play that many more games that Pollock in the 60s? Nope, he played a few more. Were Pollock's figures as good as Sobers? Yep and you can even say maybe better.
    Uhmmm. Sobers played a LOT more than Pollock in the 60s....Sobers's career was essentially the 60s. he played around 70 tests in the 60s if i am not mistaken. Pollock - what 15-20 tests ?

    And i realise that not everyone is racist nor was every single person racist from any community at a given time. However, i am talking about the general climate around that time and the institutionalised impressions. Institutions are always the slowest to change, as change in a free society comes from bottom-up. And as such, i wouldnt be least bit surprised to see a whiteboy rated higher than a black boy by the media in the 60s climate.

  4. #34
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    For an extremely short period of time. 15 odd tests doesnt qualify as being thoroughly interrogated in top level cricket.
    Pollock played for most of the 60s except the early 60s. And yes I suspected you would say that. But the talk of people and their stories on how they tried to get him out. Believe me, there was a lot of speculating on how to get him out during just one test. After one series the slightest hint of him almost getting found out was talked about. Australia knew exactly how they wanted to attack him in 1969. Teams developed strategies based entirely off a few games. So 20 was enough. Seriously I only needed one test to know Ponting is a little susceptble to lbw's and that he liked the pull and might go out to it. 100 games later and that hasn't changed.

    Its not a question of what Bradman did or Hobbs did. Its a question of what your average player did. The average FC player today is lightyears ahead of the average FC players 80 years ago in terms of skill -primarily because they are professionals while the average FC player got to play on weekends. And as such, there is a huge difference facing 2 excellent and 2 decent bowlers opposed to 1 excellnt bowler, 1 decent bowler, 1 highschool level bowler and 1 'cousin sis bowing at double bounce' level of bowler.
    None of those players faced sustained quality - they always had one or two guys to pick on who were absolutely hopeless and wouldnt go past club cricket today. And thats what makes the biggest difference.
    Which is why, i dont rate people from an amatuer era ( in any sport) highly.
    No we're talking all international players. Bradman's was the first story that came to mind since he was the most famous. Most international players had time to practice. In the 70s though, the schedule became too tough. 3-4 tours were happening a year and that's worse than 1 and maybe two. Players were putting their bosses in a bind. Ian Chappell led the cricketers and told Don Bradman time after time after time (Bradman was the head of the ACB) that they needed a break. This of course led to World Series cricket.

    But yeah crickets were given consideration if they played on an international level, but once their schedule got rough... that was it.

    Uhmmm. Sobers played a LOT more than Pollock in the 60s....Sobers's career was essentially the 60s. he played around 70 tests in the 60s if i am not mistaken. Pollock - what 15-20 tests ?
    Pollock played more than 20. But I'll concede this that I was wrong here. Sobers would have played around 40 games.

    And i realise that not everyone is racist nor was every single person racist from any community at a given time. However, i am talking about the general climate around that time and the institutionalised impressions. Institutions are always the slowest to change, as change in a free society comes from bottom-up. And as such, i wouldnt be least bit surprised to see a whiteboy rated higher than a black boy by the media in the 60s climate.
    Look I'm sure you know that not all whites are racist, but this isn't the first time you've said something like this. This isn't the first time you claimed racism over a majority rating some cricketers over another. Yes racism is a social problem, but you just can't call it out if you don't understand the reasoning behind an argument.
    Last edited by Francis; 11-05-2006 at 12:54 PM.


  5. #35
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    Look I'm sure you know that not all whites are racist, but this isn't the first time you've said something like this. This isn't the first time you claimed racism over a majority rating some crickets over another. Yes racism is a social problem, but you just can't call it out if you don't understand the reasoning behind it.
    Trust me, i understand the reasoning behind it. Its not a question of whites being racist, its a question of white nations being the ONLY nations to practice institutionalised racism. Its a big difference.
    And its not factually inaccurate either - true, 60s was the time of 'free love and hippie era' but those hippies, if you recall, were persecuted by the establishment- who were still very racist throughout the 60s. Its not until the hippies grew up and started rising through the social ranks through natural progression that racism started to go down in the 80s. And when the institution is set against you because of race, the institution has no credibility.

    No we're talking all international players.
    Even some international players back then wouldn't have made FC teams today. The quality was too far spread out. If you have a scenario where Gibbs is facing Gillespie, McGill, Hauritz and my granny, Gibbs too would have figures like Hobbs.

    And no, you aint thoroughly tested after 20 matches. Cricket is a game of continous battle. Sometimes flaws in your technique creep in, sometimes flaws are irradicated. the opposition is looking for an advantage and 20 test is hardly enough period to compare with people who've played 80-100+ tests. The latter group is far more tried and tested and such,is qualified to state claims for alltime great. The former arnt.

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    Yeah those hippies that watched cricket... yeah... er...

  7. #37
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    A tip Francis.

    C_C has a major chip on his shoulder about Whites being racist.

    He often spouts crap like that, and accuses things which aren't true.

    Just ignore the diatribe and it goes away.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178
    A tip Francis.

    C_C has a major chip on his shoulder about Whites being racist.

    He often spouts crap like that, and accuses things which aren't true.

    Just ignore the diatribe and it goes away.
    Au contraire. It seems that you got a major chip on yer shoulder about your nation's past.
    FYI, most of my real life friends are white.
    And last but not the least- i would like you to show me a single comment of mine, pertaining to racism, that isnt true.
    You aint the first european/north american i've met with a chip on their shoulder about their past and you wont be the last either.

  9. #39
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    My all time eleven

    1) J Hobbs
    2) G Greenidge
    3) D Bradman
    4) B Richards
    5) G Pollock
    6) V Richards
    7) A Gilchrist
    8) S Pollock
    9) S Warne
    10) M Marshall
    11) A Donald

    So I guess the most recent addition is Gilly! (I value weight of runs over keeping ability, each to their own)
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  10. #40
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Matteh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Langeveldt
    My all time eleven

    1) J Hobbs
    2) G Greenidge
    3) D Bradman
    4) B Richards
    5) G Pollock
    6) V Richards
    7) A Gilchrist
    8) S Pollock
    9) S Warne
    10) M Marshall
    11) A Donald

    So I guess the most recent addition is Gilly! (I value weight of runs over keeping ability, each to their own)
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  11. #41
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    Mick Lewis is an all time hall of famer, we're just talking about back of the cigarette packet musings here..

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_C
    FYI, most of my real life friends are white.
    That old chestnut?

  13. #43
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    Shane Bond

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_C
    \And last but not the least- i would like you to show me a single comment of mine, pertaining to racism, that isnt true.
    hmmm... how about this dog turd of an argument?

    its a question of white nations being the ONLY nations to practice institutionalised racism. Its a big difference.
    Yes, that's so obviously true.
    There's no institutionalised racism in countries like, um Japan, where whites, blacks, Koreans, etc, will NEVER be allowed to become citizens, no matter how long they live there.
    There's no institutionalised racism in countries like Malaysia, where quotas limiting access to public education for Chinese Malays exist and the government has policies that openly state they aim to redistribute wealth from the Chinese Malay population to the bumiputri population.
    There's no institutionalised racism in Afghanistan, where successive governments have embarked on what can only be described as genocide against the Hazara Shia population, based not only on their religion, but their differences in race.
    There's no institutionalised racism in countries like Rwanda, where the government which was based upon one tribe, led the genocide against another tribe.
    There's no institutionalised religious discrimination in a country like India, where mosques are attacked and destroyed quite regularly. You accuse countries like England and Australia of being racist countries - do you want to compare the number of Muslim properties damaged or Muslims assaulted in those countries and India over the last few years?

    You're talking crap, you're hoping nobody will call you on it because to do so wouldn't be "PC", and its offensive and just wrong.

    Racism exists everywhere, its horrible, but seemingly stubborn part of humanity. I wish it would disappear and that people who hold these stupid views would grow a brain, but I cannot accept that one "race" should be consider to be the sole purveyors of this hate.
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  15. #45
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    I'd like to add that I don't actually consider India to be a racist country - I don't judge whole countries, populations, or "races" on the stupid acts of a few members of their society.

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