Cricket Betting Site Betway
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 16

Thread: Best 1st innings ODI bowler.

  1. #1
    State Vice-Captain
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    What happened to my avatar?
    Posts
    1,251

    Best 1st innings ODI bowler.

    Anybody who's familiar with me here knows I don't entirely trust stats... but this mistrust gets much worse when it comes to ODI's. Trusting stats in ODI's is silly if you ask me.

    First off if your in a bad team then you wont go for many runs since there's no need to risk making quick runs.

    You could be somebody who bowls in the middle of an innings when runs are flowing.

    Much worse you could be bowling at the death.

    You might only get wickets because you are bowling at the death.

    ODI's are weird in that the better team you are in, the more likely you are to go for runs. You may be more likely to get wickets. But you'd go for more runs per match so you RPO rate may be high, but your average may not change despite going for more runs because you can get wickets. Just weird that you, on a bad day, can be hurt more if your in a good team because runs are paramount.

    I honestly believe I could come up with 25 complaints about how scenarios change in ODI's. That's what makes ODI's exciting, but it's what makes stats hard to trust.

    There's is one stat I sort of trust. In the first innings the team is trying to make as much runs as possible. It's 10 times different in the second innings when you can pace yourself and may not have to hit the best bowlers out of the park. Nothing too merky about it, make runs as fast as you can.

    Of course there are scenarios that hurt it, such as weather or not you have support to go for those runs. And there's more... but it's a more solid stat in my eyes.

    My question is, who is the best 1st innings bowler ever?

    I need to do some more thinking but I get the sense Glenn McGrath or Wasim Akram will be my pick. Both are awesome at getting early wickets and use their head well normally at the death.

  2. #2
    C_C
    C_C is offline
    International Captain C_C's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    World
    Posts
    6,990
    ODI's are weird in that the better team you are in, the more likely you are to go for runs.
    Eh ??

    I suppose economical bowlers like McGrath, Pollock, Wasim, Holding, Marshall, Garner, Ambrose, etc. etc. all played for 'crappy' teams ?!

    In ODIs, economy rate and wicket-taking ability must be balanced- which is why McGrath or Akram are superior to Lee or Waqar as far as i am concerned.

    Best first innings bowler- thats rather subjective and hazy but i'd probably go for Garner....as per death-over bowling, Wasim and Garner were a cut above the rest ( though McGrath too, is pretty good at death bowling)..Garner just never gave anyone the chance to hit him by bowling perfect yorkers in the death overs and Wasim would come right after a few overs going for 10-12 runs each and slip in a '4 runs, 1 wicket' over consistently.

  3. #3
    International Regular oz_fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    3,977
    IMO has to be McGrath. Not only does he slow the run rate, he also takes wickets (especially early on) and not only for himself. When he ties up one end the batsmen will try to attack the other bowler and more often than not play a stupid shot and get out. As mentioned before he is a great death bowler and often gets a wicket when Australia needs it.
    Last edited by oz_fan; 02-05-2006 at 04:14 AM.

  4. #4
    International Vice-Captain Slats4ever's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Warwickshire HQ
    Posts
    4,294
    lee. is absolutely devo!!!
    WCC - Manager of Warwickshire


  5. #5
    World Traveller Craig's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Super Happy Fun Sugar Lollipop Land!
    Posts
    34,127
    Shaun Pollock and Allan Donald perhaps?
    Beware the lollipop of mediocrity. Lick once and you suck forever...

    RIP Fardin Qayyumi, a true legend of CW

    Quote Originally Posted by Boobidy View Post
    Bradman never had to face quicks like Sharma and Irfan Pathan. He wouldn't of lasted a ball against those 2, not to mention a spinner like Sehwag.

  6. #6
    State Captain chooka_nick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Vermont, Melbourne
    Posts
    1,743
    McGrath for me
    CricketWeb Colts - Twybridge Titans

  7. #7
    International Regular oz_fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    3,977
    Quote Originally Posted by Craig
    Shaun Pollock and Allan Donald perhaps?
    Excellent ODI bowling partnership. At their peak both average close to 20 in ODI's.

  8. #8
    State Vice-Captain
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    What happened to my avatar?
    Posts
    1,251
    Eh ??

    I suppose economical bowlers like McGrath, Pollock, Wasim, Holding, Marshall, Garner, Ambrose, etc. etc. all played for 'crappy' teams ?!
    Well I picked McGrath and Wasim didn't I? McGrath's average is the same 1st innings as it is the 2nd... well they're nearly the same. I picked him because when Australia make huge scores, his average doesn't get worse. I don't know about economy rate... if there's a site that shows economy rate per 1st innings I'd wanna see it to confirm it.

    I think you'll find with many bowlers in poorer teams, their second innings averages are better because teams don't need to hit them. Daniel Vettori is an example of this. His average is below 29 in second innings'.

    In ODIs, economy rate and wicket-taking ability must be balanced- which is why McGrath or Akram are superior to Lee or Waqar as far as i am concerned.
    I completely agree with you. I just couldn't pick Lee, although his wicket-taking abilitity is a great gift, I can't ever put him in the same league as Wasim.

    [qyote]Best first innings bowler- thats rather subjective and hazy but i'd probably go for Garner....[/quote]

    Just in case you mean you didn't understand what I mean (just in case, I'm not saying you don't)... much of the time the 1st innings is where runs are trying to be made as fast as possible. In the second innings you can be more subdued and patient. Michael Bevan was amazing at just taking easy singles and reading situations. Of course there are times when your team is so far behind you need to hit out... which is why I can't trust stats here... but genrally a less rushed attitude is used.

  9. #9
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    England
    Posts
    62,891
    Quote Originally Posted by Slats4ever
    lee. is absolutely devo!!!
    1st innings: 108 @ 23.77 (4.62)
    2nd innings: 127 @ 22.06 (4.78)

    Not what I'd call best, not even best in his generation.
    marc71178 - President and founding member of AAAS - we don't only appreciate when he does well, but also when he's not quite so good!

    Anyone want to join the Society?

    Beware the evils of Kit-Kats - they're immoral apparently.

  10. #10
    Hall of Fame Member chaminda_00's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Murali CG
    Posts
    16,305
    Murali -> no contest
    The man, the mountain, the Mathews. The greatest all rounder since Keith Miller. (Y)

    Jaffna Jets CC (Battrick & FTP)

    RIP WCC and CW Cricket

    Member of the MSC, JMAS and CVAAS

  11. #11
    Global Moderator Fusion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    12,298
    Wasim for me as well. If I was picking a bowler for an ODI team, my first pick would be him.

  12. #12
    State Vice-Captain
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    What happened to my avatar?
    Posts
    1,251
    I could be wrong here, but I think Murali has a first innings average of 26.

    Again, that may be misleading as his RPO in the first innings may be great. But if he does have a 1st innings average around 26 (not that 4 or 5 runs makes a big difference) it is different to people like Lee. Although Murali -> Lee anyday of the week and twice on Sunday. Lee can be just expensive some days.

  13. #13
    State Vice-Captain
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    What happened to my avatar?
    Posts
    1,251
    Wasim for me as well. If I was picking a bowler for an ODI team, my first pick would be him.
    Yeah he's my pick for best ODI bowler ever.

  14. #14
    Hall of Fame Member Ikki's Avatar
    Cricket Champion!
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Don't leave me Murph!
    Posts
    15,463
    McGrath. Slows down the rate, ever so accurate. I'd hate to face him.

  15. #15
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    65,366
    How is Ambrose compared to McGrath and Wasim in the 1st innings?
    "I am very happy and it will allow me to have lot more rice."

    Eoin Morgan on being given a rice cooker for being Man of the Match in a Dhaka Premier Division game.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. **Official Bangladesh Domestic Cricket**
    By Jungle Jumbo in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 891
    Last Post: 15-04-2015, 06:21 AM
  2. Great Test Matches..
    By Neil Pickup in forum Cricket Games
    Replies: 67
    Last Post: 04-10-2010, 07:17 PM
  3. Surrey 2002: A Cricket Captain Diary
    By SIX AND OUT in forum Cricket Games
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 17-02-2005, 08:25 AM
  4. **Dev League Season 7**
    By Mr Mxyzptlk in forum CW Development League
    Replies: 2692
    Last Post: 09-11-2004, 03:12 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •