• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Best 1st innings ODI bowler.

Francis

State Vice-Captain
Anybody who's familiar with me here knows I don't entirely trust stats... but this mistrust gets much worse when it comes to ODI's. Trusting stats in ODI's is silly if you ask me.

First off if your in a bad team then you wont go for many runs since there's no need to risk making quick runs.

You could be somebody who bowls in the middle of an innings when runs are flowing.

Much worse you could be bowling at the death.

You might only get wickets because you are bowling at the death.

ODI's are weird in that the better team you are in, the more likely you are to go for runs. You may be more likely to get wickets. But you'd go for more runs per match so you RPO rate may be high, but your average may not change despite going for more runs because you can get wickets. Just weird that you, on a bad day, can be hurt more if your in a good team because runs are paramount.

I honestly believe I could come up with 25 complaints about how scenarios change in ODI's. That's what makes ODI's exciting, but it's what makes stats hard to trust.

There's is one stat I sort of trust. In the first innings the team is trying to make as much runs as possible. It's 10 times different in the second innings when you can pace yourself and may not have to hit the best bowlers out of the park. Nothing too merky about it, make runs as fast as you can.

Of course there are scenarios that hurt it, such as weather or not you have support to go for those runs. And there's more... but it's a more solid stat in my eyes.

My question is, who is the best 1st innings bowler ever?

I need to do some more thinking but I get the sense Glenn McGrath or Wasim Akram will be my pick. Both are awesome at getting early wickets and use their head well normally at the death.
 

C_C

International Captain
ODI's are weird in that the better team you are in, the more likely you are to go for runs.
Eh ??

I suppose economical bowlers like McGrath, Pollock, Wasim, Holding, Marshall, Garner, Ambrose, etc. etc. all played for 'crappy' teams ?!

In ODIs, economy rate and wicket-taking ability must be balanced- which is why McGrath or Akram are superior to Lee or Waqar as far as i am concerned.

Best first innings bowler- thats rather subjective and hazy but i'd probably go for Garner....as per death-over bowling, Wasim and Garner were a cut above the rest ( though McGrath too, is pretty good at death bowling)..Garner just never gave anyone the chance to hit him by bowling perfect yorkers in the death overs and Wasim would come right after a few overs going for 10-12 runs each and slip in a '4 runs, 1 wicket' over consistently.
 

oz_fan

International Regular
IMO has to be McGrath. Not only does he slow the run rate, he also takes wickets (especially early on) and not only for himself. When he ties up one end the batsmen will try to attack the other bowler and more often than not play a stupid shot and get out. As mentioned before he is a great death bowler and often gets a wicket when Australia needs it.
 
Last edited:

Francis

State Vice-Captain
Eh ??

I suppose economical bowlers like McGrath, Pollock, Wasim, Holding, Marshall, Garner, Ambrose, etc. etc. all played for 'crappy' teams ?!
Well I picked McGrath and Wasim didn't I? McGrath's average is the same 1st innings as it is the 2nd... well they're nearly the same. I picked him because when Australia make huge scores, his average doesn't get worse. I don't know about economy rate... if there's a site that shows economy rate per 1st innings I'd wanna see it to confirm it.

I think you'll find with many bowlers in poorer teams, their second innings averages are better because teams don't need to hit them. Daniel Vettori is an example of this. His average is below 29 in second innings'.

In ODIs, economy rate and wicket-taking ability must be balanced- which is why McGrath or Akram are superior to Lee or Waqar as far as i am concerned.
I completely agree with you. I just couldn't pick Lee, although his wicket-taking abilitity is a great gift, I can't ever put him in the same league as Wasim.

[qyote]Best first innings bowler- thats rather subjective and hazy but i'd probably go for Garner....[/quote]

Just in case you mean you didn't understand what I mean (just in case, I'm not saying you don't)... much of the time the 1st innings is where runs are trying to be made as fast as possible. In the second innings you can be more subdued and patient. Michael Bevan was amazing at just taking easy singles and reading situations. Of course there are times when your team is so far behind you need to hit out... which is why I can't trust stats here... but genrally a less rushed attitude is used.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Slats4ever said:
lee. is absolutely devo!!!
1st innings: 108 @ 23.77 (4.62)
2nd innings: 127 @ 22.06 (4.78)

Not what I'd call best, not even best in his generation.
 

Fusion

Global Moderator
Wasim for me as well. If I was picking a bowler for an ODI team, my first pick would be him.
 

Francis

State Vice-Captain
I could be wrong here, but I think Murali has a first innings average of 26.

Again, that may be misleading as his RPO in the first innings may be great. But if he does have a 1st innings average around 26 (not that 4 or 5 runs makes a big difference) it is different to people like Lee. Although Murali -> Lee anyday of the week and twice on Sunday. Lee can be just expensive some days.
 

Top