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Thread: ****OFFICIAL**** Lara vs Tendulkar Debate Thread

  1. #31
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt79
    In regards to your specific point, could it be that in many cases when Tendaulkar plays well, India seldom end up under pressure to win a test?

    I guess points should go to Lara given he's carried the Windies a lot more than Tendaulkar has had to carry India, especially recently, with players like Dravid, Ganguly, Laxman, Sehwag. Lara's had Gayle and Chandrapaul....
    Well i cant say for sure if India in the last 15 years have had that issue. Lara up until 2002 or so had Hooper & in his early days had Adams (who was phenomenal in the mid 90s) & Richardson. While Tendulkar had Azharuddin & Sidhu also. So they have had pretty good batting support during the 90s but i reckon Lara still had to carry the windies batting more than Tendulkar has had to carry India's..

  2. #32
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker
    So how do you explain the higher average of Tendulkar in a winning test? I'd much rather have a consistent scores of 50-60 (with a LOT of centuries to boot), which help turn the tide of matches than 0, 10, 1, 400*, 1, 2, 6, 12.
    Tendulkar averaged 59 in matches won & Lara 57, really that isn't much of a difference. Its not as if i'm doubting Tendulkar is more consistent anyway that was my first point in the thread.

  3. #33
    Hall of Fame Member honestbharani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussie
    Well i cant say for sure if India in the last 15 years have had that issue. Lara up until 2002 or so had Hooper & in his early days had Adams (who was phenomenal in the mid 90s) & Richardson. While Tendulkar had Azharuddin & Sidhu also. So they have had pretty good batting support during the 90s but i reckon Lara still had to carry the windies batting more than Tendulkar has had to carry India's..
    AS someone who has watched both of them almost every time, I think I can safely say that Sachin has had better batting suppor than Lara, at least at home. Away from home, both had very little back up. But then again, DRavid > Chanderpaul.
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    In the end, I think it's so utterly, incomprehensibly boring. There is so much context behind each innings of cricket that dissecting statistics into these small samples is just worthless. No-one has ever been faced with the same situation in which they come out to bat as someone else. Ever.
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  4. #34
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    I don't believe that Sachin is a choker, nor do I believe that Lara is a 'dead-rubber basher', however aren't they one and the same?

    If a player doesn't perform when the series is alive, but only performs when the series is long gone in what is, basically a match for pride, then isn't he also a choker?

    I don't see how a player who apparently fails often when there is a specific situation of immense pressure during a match, for eg. 5-180 needing a target of 290 to win, is any different from a player who fails when the series is alive, whether they come in in 'pressure situations' like is mentioned above or not.

    They are one and the same IMO.
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  5. #35
    Hall of Fame Member honestbharani's Avatar
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    u know, I keep wondering why the scribes around the world keep asking Sachin about comparing himself with Lara and Lara about comparing himself with Sachin. These guys are very good friends and unlike Murali and Warne, actually know how to conduct themselves with a bit of grace when asked about their competitors. But they still keep trying, and failing.

  6. #36
    Hall of Fame Member Sanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by age_master
    i would take Lara any day of the week.
    I am sure you will, Given Sachin's record against Australia.

  7. #37
    Hall of Fame Member steds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Mxyzptlk
    The prospect of this thread makes me cringe.
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  8. #38
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussie
    Tendulkar averaged 59 in matches won & Lara 57, really that isn't much of a difference. Its not as if i'm doubting Tendulkar is more consistent anyway that was my first point in the thread.

    So then how can you say he chokes [even a little bit], if he scores more than Lara in games won?



    Plus Lara is a cheat and a liar, he only cares about money. Lara shouldn't even be in the game, he's a disgrace. He is only even considered in the same league as Sachin because he is from WI and historically we all know how WI players have been overrated in comparison to their contemporaries.


    /Just kidding

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by steds
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  10. #40
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker
    So then how can you say he chokes [even a little bit], if he scores more than Lara in games won?
    This stats shows that in games won Tendulkar averages better, but it would be interesting if one is to break down Tendulkar's & Lara 25/24 games before 2001 which they won to see how many cases where India & West Indies were in 4th innings chases.

    For Lara in matches chasing targets he averages 61, Tendulkar averages 54. Again not a big difference, but i still rate Lara's ability as a match-winner higher than Tendulkar.

  11. #41
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussie
    This stats shows that in games won Tendulkar averages better, but it would be interesting if one is to break down Tendulkar's & Lara 25/24 games before 2001 which they won to see how many cases where India & West Indies were in 4th innings chases.

    For Lara in matches chasing targets he averages 61, Tendulkar averages 54. Again not a big difference, but i still rate Lara's ability as a match-winner higher than Tendulkar.
    You can win by chasing OR by setting a first innings score. They are both equally important, its just that scores made chasing are more memorable. So, again, I don't see how you can objectively rate that ability higher. Its one thing if you personally like one player over another (and thats fine, just like I like tendulkar), but quite another if you 'rate' them objectively and say 'This one isnt as good at matchwinning as another.'

    It is also important to note that in the early 90's, WI were much much better than India has ever been. Probably even through the entire 90's. Since about 2000's, India have been better but Tendulkar has not been as consistent. So that works against him.

    Overall though, Tendulkar (for me, personal opinion) is better in almost ever facet when compared to Lara. Perhaps not as good as making exceptionally large scores, but thats about it.
    Last edited by silentstriker; 27-04-2006 at 05:04 PM.

  12. #42
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker
    So then how can you say he chokes [even a little bit], if he scores more than Lara in games won?
    Maybe because when he fails they don't win so those scores don't go into his "won game" average thus making it higher?!
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  13. #43
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178
    Maybe because when he fails they don't win so those scores don't go into his "won game" average thus making it higher?!

    That seems more an endoresement of him than an indictment, showing how valuble he is to team success.

  14. #44
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker
    You can win by chasing OR by setting a first innings score. They are both equally important, its just that scores made chasing are mre memorable.
    its not just that its more memorable, it tougher because by the 4th innings of a match a pitch is at its hardest to bat on, which makes making runs in 4th innings more significant.

    Lets say you bat first on flat pitch & make 150 & in the 4th innings the pitch becomes slow, low & you have to make 300 to win & you make 120 obviously in this innings you would have to apply yourself more..

  15. #45
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker
    That seems more an endoresement of him than an indictment, showing how valuble he is to team success.
    No, it's just countering your comment about choking, since choking would indicate the sides in a chance to win, he fails and they don't win.

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