****OFFICIAL**** Lara vs Tendulkar Debate Thread

[Benny2k1]

Hey CC i respect your opinion i just disagree when you say Sachin Is "comprehensively and categorically" better than lara in odis!
If you said in my opinion sachin is a little better i couldnt argues with you but stats show that he is no way near miles ahead!

Ive shown these stats before but After so many ODIS..........

M I NO R HS AVG 100 50 0
Lara 50 50 5 1795 128 39.88 3 13 3
Sachin 50 48 5 1446 84 33.62 0 12 3

lara 100 99 8 3994 169 43.89 7 28 3
Sachin 100 97 11 3146 115 36.58 4 21 6

lara 150 147 15 5860 169 44.39 12 38 7
Sachin 150 147 14 5321 137 40.00 12 32 7

lara 200 195 21 7370 169 42.35 14 48 12
Sachin 200 193 18 7305 143 41.74 18 43 8

Lara 250 243 26 9261 169 42.67 19 57 12
Sachin250 243 22 9287 186* 42.02 25 47 12

These two batsmens Records are basically the same after 250 odis (sachin being behind for the previous) Now lara has only played 10 or so more, Sachin has played over 100 :S so obviously he will have more runs more centuries, If sachin retired now, and Lara plays 100 games THEN we can compare equally, but theses stats show that after 250 ODIS there records are too close to call

 

[C_C]

Last 25 ODIs:

Tendy: 25 25 1 823 123 34.29 2 4
Lara : 25 24 1 688 156 29.91 1 3


Last 50 ODIs:

Tendy: 50 50 3 2014 141 42.85 5 11
Lara : 50 47 4 1315 156 30.58 1 7

Last 75 ODIs:

Tendy:75 74 6 3043 152 44.75 8 17
Lara: 75 71 8 2395 156 38.01 5 12

Last 100 ODIs:

Tendy: 100 98 11 4274 152 49.12 12 22
Lara: 100 96 12 3282 156 39.07 6 19

Last 150 ODIs:

Tendy:150 148 13 6317 186* 46.79 18 29
Lara: 150 144 15 4632 156 35.90 8 26

Last 200 ODIs:

Tendy: 200 196 18 8582 186* 48.21 27 39
Lara : 200 192 22 7116 169 41.85 15 41

Last 250 ODIs:

Tendy: 250 244 21 10282 186* 46.10 32 47
Lara: 250 242 26 9112 169 42.18 19 55

Those stats dont take into account that Sachin had a slow start to his ODIs and Lara a blazing one.
Fact is, Sachin has done better than Lara in ODIs comprehensively for a long long time and the bulk of their careers Tendy has been the forefront ODI batsman.
Also, Tendy has outshone Lara in ODIs over the past 10-11 years consistently as well.
Its similar to my stance in Botham vs Imran comparisons: Botham had a magnificient few years and then dropped off to mediocre category. Imran started slow and churned out stunning displays in the 80s but was also a more consistent performer.
For the last 15 years they played together (and i am discounting this year so far as tendy has only 4 ODIs or 1990 when Lara had only 1 ODI) Tendulkar has done better in 10 of them and better for the past eight years straight.
Lara was better from 94-97 period, barring 96( Lara had a higher average by 4 points but Tendulkar was more consistent, played double as much and scored more than double the runs). But overall career-wise, Tendy comes out quite clearly the better in ODIs.

 

[Benny2k1]

I guess we are in a no win situation because your going from present day back and im going from the start of the careers, My stats say lara yours say sachin, i think we should compromise and say they are both genious's and not alot can seperate them?!

 

[C_C]

I guess we are in a no win situation because your going from present day back and im going from the start of the careers, My stats say lara yours say sachin, i think we should compromise and say they are both genious's and not alot can seperate them?!

I'd agree in tests but in ODIs, i seriously think that Tendulkar is clearly better than Lara.
He's shaded by Tendulkar for the bulk of his career and since Tendulkar's second-comming as an ODI opener, he's really blown apart the competition and only Bevan is in the same stratosphere.

 

[Benny2k1]

Bulk of Career? Lara had the better start, Sachins come good later, I still think its unfair to compare because sachin has played so many more games. Id say they are pretty much even in both forms, with my personal preference going to lara

 

[JBH001]

I don't know about that, Benny.

Nothing much may separate them in tests - but in ODI's (especially as Sachin was a notoriously slow starter, until he was promoted to open) as C_C has stated, Sachin does surpass Lara in a substantial way.

Most observers would rank Sachin, Bevan and Viv as the greatest of one-day batsmen with the other great one-day batsmen say #4 - #10 etc. in a close knit group together.
It is somewhat similiar to the test rankings - you have Bradman first, then the next greatest in a close group. Except here you have Sachin, Bevan and Viv and the rest etc.

Think on this, if an all-time world ODI XI was to be selected.
The first names down as batsmen would be Sachin, Viv and Bevan at No.1, No.3 and No. 6/7 respectively. Lara would have to challenge for his spot. Sachin really would not.

 

[C_C]

Bulk of Career? Lara had the better start, Sachins come good later, I still think its unfair to compare because sachin has played so many more games. Id say they are pretty much even in both forms, with my personal preference going to lara

Well shading someone for the past 250 matches ( when you've played just 100-odd more and the other guy has a dozen-odd more), shading someone for the last eight years straight and shading the same someone for 10 outta 15 years in the career is quite comprehensive in my books.
Its not like we are comparing Tendulkar with Azharuddin or Lara with Hooper where the gap is as wide as a lightyear. Lara is a great batsman in his own right and as i said, i'd select him for an ODI alltime XI. But Sachin is ahead in a concrete and discernable way in ODIs and he has competition from only two other batsmen for the greatest ODI batsman ever tag. Lara to be fair, has very little that seperates him from the likes of Ponting,Inzamam, Miandad, Haynes, Anwar, Ganguly, etc. when it comes to ODIs.

 

[silentstriker]

Agreed. Though I'd rather have Sachin in tests, the different isnt very much pronounced.


However, in ODI's, theres simply no comparison. Its Sir Viv, Tendulkar and Bevan...you pick the order.

Everyone else is in the second notch.

 

[honestbharani]

Lara has def. gone off the boil in ODIs since the turn of the century, but to say he wasn't THE best player in ODIs for a few years is ridiculously wrong. There was a time when he averaged 60s in ODIs. That after a good 4 years or so of his debut AND batting at 3 or opening, not the Bevanesque not out stuff. (not a knock on Bevan, but you guys get my point.)


That said, I still would pick Sachin ahead of Lara in ODIs anyday, the gap as substantial as you guys want to portray it.

 

[Xuhaib]

Lara was untouchable in ODI's period 93-97,during this time he opened a lot.

I feel he should have opened the innings a lot more in ODI's like Sachin since due to flat tracks, feilding restrictions and hard ball it makes it easier to score especially in sub-continent and places like Westindies.

 

[Goughy]

I think there is little doubt that Sachin has been the superior ODI player. However, I do not enjoy ODIsor see them as important cricket and therefore I do not place much value on that.

I would place Lara ahead of Sachin as a Test player, though not by much and I have stated before that Lara is far from the perfect player.

I am influenced a little by the fact that the most cricket I saw Tendulkar play was during his very, very average season for Yorkshire where he let himself and the County down. (He was the 1st overseas player Yorkshire had and there were great expectations).

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Why dont you let it die ? You come here and post bull crap that 'Sachin is Indian, therefore better". Hey atleast most of us recognize Lara as a great batsman, as great as Sachin Tendulkar If not better. And that's very unlike majority of fans of some country who cant get over the fact that there is another spinner in the world who can be as good (if not better) as the spinner from their country.

Um, nice work genius. Did you even read my post. It was a joke, and I even clarified it with a second sentence calling them both legends, and that they are too good to be comapred, and should stay as equals.

So, in conclusion, gj buddy , you look real smart now.

 

[Benny2k1]

Lara was untouchable in ODI's period 93-97,during this time he opened a lot.

I feel he should have opened the innings a lot more in ODI's like Sachin since due to flat tracks, feilding restrictions and hard ball it makes it easier to score especially in sub-continent and places like Westindies.

Agreed!! There is not as much between them as sachin fans claim

 

[Top_Cat]

I am influenced a little by the fact that the most cricket I saw Tendulkar play was during his very, very average season for Yorkshire where he let himself and the County down. (He was the 1st overseas player Yorkshire had and there were great expectations).

Wasn't he still a teen when he played for Yorks? You're a hard man!

 

[Goughy]

You're a hard man!

Thank You

 

[Benny2k1]

I think the fact that most indian fans go for tendulkar and others go for lara is telling(although am sure there are exceptions) every one else in the world doesnt get to see sachin play great innings except occasionally, but we get alot of west indies match we see lara make 375, 501, 400, break Borders record smash attacks around the world and do this Vs Australia

http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1998-99/AUS_IN_WI/SCORECARDS/AUS_WI_T3_26-30MAR1999.html

Leaves quite a good impression over anything that sachin has done for me

 

[silentstriker]

I think the fact that most indian fans go for tendulkar and others go for lara is telling(although am sure there are exceptions) every one else in the world doesnt get to see sachin play great innings except occasionally, but we get alot of west indies match we see lara make 375, 501, 400, break Borders record smash attacks around the world and do this Vs Australia

http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1998-99/AUS_IN_WI/SCORECARDS/AUS_WI_T3_26-30MAR1999.html

Leaves quite a good impression over anything that sachin has done for me

Except Australian players, who clearly rate Tendulkar higher. You can have all your 300+ scores, but I dont want someone who is #4 all time in inconsistency over someone who can score anywhere, and do it consistently.

 

[Goughy]

This has no relevance to the discussion, and Im not reading anything into it.

I just found it interesting that Sachin (ie India winning with him in the team) has only won 1 test in England. I just saw this info and it surprized me a little (though he did score 193 in the test).

Its a strange cricketing quirk that Tendulakar has won as many games in England as Owais Shah has won in India.

 

[Benny2k1]

Except Australian players, who clearly rate Tendulkar higher. You can have all your 300+ scores, but I dont want someone who is #4 all time in inconsistency over someone who can score anywhere, and do it consistently.

Read langers collumn about lara, listen to what border has to say bout lara, Stuart mcgill said laras the most destructive batsmen he has come against

 

[C_C]

Read langers collumn about lara, listen to what border has to say bout lara, Stuart mcgill said laras the most destructive batsmen he has come against

And McGrath,Gillespie,Warne,Ponting,Waugh brothers, etc. all rate Tendulkar as categorically better than Lara.
Infact, most of the great bowlers who've come up against them rate Tendulkar better.
So far, the bowlers in Lara camp are Murali, McGill and Vettori ( all spinners and that just confirms that Lara is a slightly better player of spin). Tendulkar is rated higher by Akram, McGrath,Gillespie,Warne, Donald,Pollock,Vaas,Cairns, etc.
Suffice to say, Tendulkar is held in higher regard by most quality bowlers of their era than Lara is.
Tendulkar and Lara are quite close in Tests (and i'd still opt for Tendulkar, considering that Lara has dominated a couple of seasons in the 90s and a buncha years in the low quality recent days but Tendulkar dominated right at the peak of great bowlers of his time and on pitches far more suitable for bowlers than today) but in ODIs, its quite clearly Tendulkar.
Lara was awesome for 4 years in the mid 90s but Tendulkar has outshone him for the bulk of their careers( past 8 years straight, 10 of 15 years playing together and last 250 odd ODIs) quite comprehensively in ODIs. To me, the gap between Tendy and Lara in ODIs is similar to the gap between Ponting and Symonds in ODIs- both are awesome but Ponting is distinctly better.Likewise with Tendy and Lara.