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Thread: Old but Still Gold

  1. #61
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    Eddie, HB, I'm happy to argue this with you because you are posters who's opinions and posts I always find balanced, well-made and fair - I admire the contributions you make to a variety of discussions (devil duck = genius). To use a famous quote, some others can make their own arrangements.

    I completely agree with you about Warne and Waugh taking a step on a slippery slope. HB - I'll have to refresh my memory of it, and don't have the time this evening to do the reading, but my memory is that the bookies approached Waugh and Warne, not the other way around. Even listening to the bookie by W&W was an act of massive stupidity and they badly let themselves and the cricket world down.
    The way that these ******* bookies operate is exactly what happened with Warne and Waugh - they initially make a contact, offer some generous hospitality (leather jackets etc) and get the players to provide some fairly innocous information they know the bookie could get elsewhere anyway - what's the harm they think. From there, once the bookie has got the player taking money for information, it is indeed a slippery slope to doing other more serious things.

    BUT, saying that allowing yourself to get sucked in that far, before extricating yourself (even if that requires from your friends and the authorities) is the same thing as match fixing is quite unfair - particularly as match-fixing etc weren't the well known issues they are today. What they did wasn't actually illegal - no charges were laid, and unlike some others, they are free to travel to India whenever they like.

    The distinction between what they did and matchfixing is a genuine one. Yes they both involved improper contact with bookies, and yes both actions were designed to allow bookies to improperly benefit from gambling on the results of the match. But providing info is a different kettle of fish because its not giving the bookies something they couldn't have got from another source anyway, and more significantly, because it didn't involve them trying to do anything when playing but win the game as best they could. Its the deliberate effort to distort results that I see as the most serious aspect of this kind of crime.

    Now I accept that if they had not been pulled up at the time they were, this contact could have evolved into something like matchfixing. I accept the possibility, but I don't think its likely. From issues like this in other fields, the proportion of people who'll accept the initial bribe for harmless info compared to those who'll take the next step is actually quite small - most people still retain enough of a moral compass not to do so. Unfortunately the bookies only need a couple of takers. We can only speculate - some obviously believe they would have gone further, I don't - but I guess Cronje fans would have said the same. My point is to label someone as a cheat in this regard when they haven't actually done the deed is very unfair - it denies them the fairness of realising that from where they were to match-fixing, they would have had many many chances to opt out and stop.
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  2. #62
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    And I add that the then ACB majorly erred in seeking to cover this up. It ended up doing the players and the game no good at all.

  3. #63
    Hall of Fame Member luckyeddie's Avatar
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    I'm not getting involved in this other than to say that Warne got out of it in time (before he was ensnared) - and cricket is better for that.
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  4. #64
    State 12th Man Autobahn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by parttimer
    H. Singh should have been sorted out earlier, he was chucking with impunity for years. Broad wasn't afraid of being called a racist (which is the logical conclusion of choice for many). Do we have any1 else as brave as Broad on the panel? And why'd he leave?
    The problem with Harby was that over a length of time he started bowling quicker and quicker and his action got very whippy and eventually went to pot.

    It wasn't a case of Broad being particularly brave, it was just that by that time harby's action had deteriorated so much that it was apparent to the naked-eye.


  5. #65
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyeddie
    I'm not getting involved in this other than to say that Warne got out of it in time (before he was ensnared) - and cricket is better for that.
    Yeah, I've had enough of this thread too - this is not what I like my CW experience to be about.

  6. #66
    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    The spiel from the ICC regarding corruption is that once you do what Waugh and Warne did - give conditions - you've put yourself in a position to be blackmailed unless you do what they tell you to.

    Also, I can't remember, but how were Warne and Waugh found out? From memory, something to do with the team manager? Or am I getting confused with the approach from Malik?

  7. #67
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by honestbharani
    Neither has Lee.
    Actually, Lee's action is totally different to what it was early in his career. It's one of the reasons he's a much better bowler.

    Anyway, the kink in Lee's elbow is no worse than Shoaib's, and both Lee and Shoaib have been accused and tested before and nothing came of it. The issue with the likes of Shabbir and Shoaib Malik and so on is a different one.
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  8. #68
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Yes but the fact is Shoaib has been vilified much more than Lee, despite both being similar cases with them being extremely quick bowlers with dodgy actions which were deemed to be fine under the laws.
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  9. #69
    Hall of Fame Member Sanz's Avatar
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    Shoaib continues to get vilified by people, even recently Greg Chappell raised questions about his action easily forgetting that there are players in his own team (Bhajji) whose action is much more questionable when he bowls his Doosra.

  10. #70
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    Yes but the fact is Shoaib has been vilified much more than Lee, despite both being similar cases with them being extremely quick bowlers with dodgy actions which were deemed to be fine under the laws.
    Vilified by whom? By some people, sure, but read ICF and Lee is the biggest chucker in the world while Shoaib is the victim of racism. It just depends which set of idiots you listen to.

  11. #71
    School Boy/Girl Captain What-A-Player's Avatar
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    ..and yet again we see this so called Match Referee fine Sehwag for excessive appealing and Lara the cry baby goes scot free

  12. #72
    Hall of Fame Member Sanz's Avatar
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    That's like rubbing salt on your wounds...

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